U.S. Soldier Survives Taliban Machine Gun Fire During Firefight

[B4Buster]

It hasnt even been 24 hours  geez not everybody trolls the bbs on an hourly basis, put your troll bait away

 

Spot on.

[SmokinLoon]

I doubt we'll hear much from anyone.  It is not typical for anyone to step forward and "repent", I bet we'll see, if anything, a few say "it proves nothing".

I still say no one could "edit" in the bullet impacts so very near him, nor could they edit the sound so well to mimic the echoes of the gun shots mixed in with the sounds of his foot steps.  There are far too many legit things going on in that video for it to be fake.  But, to each his own.  I'm not wasting sleep on anyone's opinion. 

[Babalonian]

They'll still fault him or something in the video for whatever reason.  Someone will disect the creases in his uniform to highlight that the guy didn't fold or stow it correctly if they get the fancy to.

I remember reading last year someone saying the logic of drawing fire is sound, but his execution and form were in need of improvement.  That now seems to be correct.  In the story/interview, even he admits it was stupid what he did, but doing something you have to do isn't stupid if it works (I think I'll call it luck).

Oh, and In.

[guncrasher]

I doubt we'll hear much from anyone.  It is not typical for anyone to step forward and "repent", I bet we'll see, if anything, a few say "it proves nothing".

I still say no one could "edit" in the bullet impacts so very near him, nor could they edit the sound so well to mimic the echoes of the gun shots mixed in with the sounds of his foot steps.  There are far too many legit things going on in that video for it to be fake.  But, to each his own.  I'm not wasting sleep on anyone's opinion. 

dude repent for what, not like we were protesting on somebody's lawn.  based on the information available the doubts raised were valid, that they turned out to be wrong well guess what this is just an obscure bb that didnt make it to the new york times.

have you repented for all the wrong things you have said on this bb?


midway

[SmokinLoon]

dude repent for what, not like we were protesting on somebody's lawn.  based on the information available the doubts raised were valid, that they turned out to be wrong well guess what this is just an obscure bb that didnt make it to the new york times.

have you repented for all the wrong things you have said on this bb?


midway

*leg humps guncrasher*  Relax.  Don't take it so personal.   

Based on the information that was available passing judgement on this infantryman is the last thing any of us should have done. I neither supported or dogged him for what he did because coming from a LEO background I KNOW there are things that video does not show or explain and that people will pick and choose what to see and not see unless there is absolute commentary from the author.  Even if the author would have lost his life I would have not called this fake for the reason I've already mentioned.  I just get a kick out of the people who are so quick with the judgements when they have little or no experience with maneuvers, firearms, etc, and they judge so quickly with nothing to stand on.  I'm not pointing to anyone here in specific, that is just a general statement.

Has anyone else seen the entire Rodney King video?  Does anyone know what the Use of Force guidelines and laws were in CA at that time?
  

[guncrasher]

*leg humps guncrasher*  Relax.  Don't take it so personal.   

Based on the information that was available passing judgement on this infantryman is the last thing any of us should have done. I neither supported or dogged him for what he did because coming from a LEO background I KNOW there are things that video does not show or explain and that people will pick and choose what to see and not see unless there is absolute commentary from the author.  Even if the author would have lost his life I would have not called this fake for the reason I've already mentioned.  I just get a kick out of the people who are so quick with the judgements when they have little or no experience with maneuvers, firearms, etc, and they judge so quickly with nothing to stand on.  I'm not pointing to anyone here in specific, that is just a general statement.

Has anyone else seen the entire Rodney King video?  Does anyone know what the Use of Force guidelines and laws were in CA at that time?
  

they were not so quick in passing judment.  the questions about the video were valid from putting the rifle down to reload, not another voice heard on the video, the soldier shooting at nothing all the way to gunfire sounds.

and I saw the entire rodney king video as it was shown on tv way back then.  and the police guidelines and laws of California at the same did not include beating the crap out of somebody once he posed no threat.

but here it is for you.  you can actually see an officer trying to stop another from beating him at about 27 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OauOPTwbqk


midway

[Xjazz]

I doubt we'll hear much from anyone.  It is not typical for anyone to step forward and "repent", I bet we'll see, if anything, a few say "it proves nothing".

I still say no one could "edit" in the bullet impacts so very near him, nor could they edit the sound so well to mimic the echoes of the gun shots mixed in with the sounds of his foot steps.  There are far too many legit things going on in that video for it to be fake.  But, to each his own.  I'm not wasting sleep on anyone's opinion. 

I still say, it's possible to add a after-effects to the films with rotor-scoping.

Why those bullet hits are beyond todays CGI?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQHw6scdQ7E

[soda72]

I just watched the video for the first time.  It's hard to see what he is shooting at, but that is understandable given the situation.  There is one thing that I am certain is real, he is firing the gun with real bullets.  You don't get that kind of recoil when firing blanks.

[SmokinLoon]

they were not so quick in passing judment.  the questions about the video were valid from putting the rifle down to reload, not another voice heard on the video, the soldier shooting at nothing all the way to gunfire sounds.

and I saw the entire rodney king video as it was shown on tv way back then.  and the police guidelines and laws of California at the same did not include beating the crap out of somebody once he posed no threat.

but here it is for you.  you can actually see an officer trying to stop another from beating him at about 27 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OauOPTwbqk


midway

Again, regarding the soldier's video: You mention "shooting at nothing", while we can not see what he is shooting at means he is not shooting at "nothing".  I bet he know where the incoming fire was originating, hence his aiming his outbound fire.  The reload? Yeah, I agree but that was a luxury he took (grabbing in to a bag) for the new mag.  My question is why he didnt grab one out of his vest? Did he run those mags dry and now he was digging in to his reserve?  We dont know, so I'll give him his due since we do not have the info to judge. Voices? Maybe they were cut out by gunfire noise? Maybe he was being responded back to with hand signals?  We dont know.  With the incoming rounds impacting within camera shot, I find it hard to believe that was acted out.    

Regarding King-
Here is some information for you, King tossed those COPS around like rag dolls, but we didnt see that in the news.  All we saw was Koon swinging his PR24 (baton) like a bat at King's legs, which in itself was all about pain compliance.  Thing was though, King could not feel pain thanks to his PCP trip.  Did the COPs go too far? Tough call, the courts said yes for obvious reasons.  Trust me when I say I was on the bandwagon at one point in condemning what the COPs did, but after watching the entire tape and knowing the ins and outs of law enforcement I've pulled my condemnation back.  Nailing someone in the shins or thighs is completely within the realm of pain compliance.  Kings body was not feeling the pain but his joints were swelling so badly that he couldn't walk, and it was THEN that Sgt Koon should have stopped but he kept going and that is when he crossed the line.  There was enough man power to subdue King once his body was not able to hardly move, but until then King literally tossed COPs over the hood of their car and didn't even flinch when checked, OC'ed, or threatened with deadly force.  This in a subject for an entirely different thread, the point I was trying to make was to NOT jump to conclusions without knowing the entire story.  This goes for everything.    

[SmokinLoon]

I just watched the video for the first time.  It's hard to see in the video what he is shooting at, but that is understandable given the situation.  There is one thing that I am certain is real, he is firing the gun with real bullets.  You don't get that kind of recoil when firing blanks.

Did you notice the incoming bullet impacts?  You'll see bits of dust and rock fragments kick up in view of the camera as he moves down.

[MarineUS]

Lol I still have my message I sent to Gman some time ago when Funker Tactical proved it was legit after the posting. He never replied.


Matter of fact:

I mentioned earlier that a local news station confirmed it was real.

Then gman never said anything else....

[Masherbrum]

Has anyone else seen the entire Rodney King video?  Does anyone know what the Use of Force guidelines and laws were in CA at that time?

Prior to the Video you mention.  

Rodney King was speeding in excess of 100mph, under the influence of alcohol (around .2 [twice the legal limit] when the whole situation unfolded) and refused to pull over (Toxicology reports proved no PCP was not in his system).   He then stopped, got out flashed some fingers at the cops.   Got back in his car and proceeded to exceed 100mph again.  King later admitted in court, that he attempted to outrun the police at dangerously high speeds because the charge of DUI would violate his parole for a previous robbery conviction.   They took his BAC fives hours later, after he was arrested and it was just under the Legal limit.

So no, that part of the video doesn't exist.   He was also resisting arrest while still under the influence of alcohol.    The "video" starts as he is tazed for the second time.   What would you have done?   His two passengers weren't even charged and gave no resistance while being restrained temporarily on the scene.  

"Use of Force Continuum"      The Office in Charge of the scene ordered weapons holstered, long before that video even started.

It was followed to be honest:

Verbalization — Force is not-physical.  (This went out of the window when he got back into his car and sped away with intent to evade)

    Officers may increase their volume and shorten commands in an attempt to gain compliance. Short commands might include "Stop," or "Don't move."  (Pretty sure before he flipped off the 5.0, verbal commands were used by the LEO's and his passengers.  Comments would have been "WTF are you doing?" or along those lines.

Empty-Hand Control — Officers use bodily force to gain control of a situation. (This was used prior to the video)

    Soft technique. Officers use grabs, holds and joint locks to restrain an individual.
    Hard technique. Officers use punches and kicks to restrain an individual.

Less-Lethal Methods — Officers use less-lethal technologies to gain control of a situation.   (This was used to no effect as well as Empty-Hand)

    Blunt impact. Officers may use a baton or projectile to immobilize a combative person.   (Oh he was combative and charged Officers a couple of times and LEO's aren't too receptive of that.   They also tried a couple of times to hog tie him and finally succeeded)

    Chemical. Officers may use chemical sprays or projectiles embedded with chemicals to restrain an individual (e.g., pepper spray).  (I have never seen a report or heard of this being used, but it wouldn't have mattered)
    Conducted Energy Devices (CEDs). Officers may use CEDs to immobilize an individual. CEDs discharge a high-voltage, low-amperage jolt of electricity at a distance.  (I doubt the tazers back then were as quality as they are today.  Also, they are still know to be fickle at times.)

The only thing left is to use Lethal Force.    So are you implying they shouldn't have holstered weapons?    


Fast forward from 1993 to the present.   Convicted of DUI, running into his wife with a car, a couple more Reckless Driving charges and even another DUI in 2003, after he ran a red light, refused to pull over (there seems to be a pattern here) and ran into a house IIRC.  In 2011, he was cited for Driving without a License and later skipped the hearing, so that was added to him being arrested for Reckless Driving in 2012.  He drowned after a night of drinking, snorting blow and puffing weed.   No sympathy for him here.  

I am trying to wonder what angle you are looking for here?   Comparing Rodney King to the video from the OP, is pointless and a straw man reach at best.   Portions of a City were burned and Reginald Denny took a brick to his head point blank, all because a drunken idiot resisted arrest after breaking countless Misdemeanors and a couple of Felonies in one night.   "Use of Force Continuum" is your hill to die on?  


Semp.   Correct and Thank you.   Three Veterans and myself questioned the authenticity.   Valid points were made/discussed, some went at length and in great detail.   If the video IS real, then I apologize.    

[GScholz]

I still say, it's possible to add a after-effects to the films with rotor-scoping.

I'm guessing you mean rotoscoping, and it's pretty clear you don't know anything about it.

[SmokinLoon]

Prior to the Video you mention.  

Rodney King was speeding in excess of 100mph, under the influence of alcohol (around .2 [twice the legal limit] when the whole situation unfolded) and refused to pull over (Toxicology reports proved no PCP was not in his system).   He then stopped, got out flashed some fingers at the cops.   Got back in his car and proceeded to exceed 100mph again.  King later admitted in court, that he attempted to outrun the police at dangerously high speeds because the charge of DUI would violate his parole for a previous robbery conviction.   They took his BAC fives hours later, after he was arrested and it was just under the Legal limit.

So no, that part of the video doesn't exist.   He was also resisting arrest while still under the influence of alcohol.    The "video" starts as he is tazed for the second time.   What would you have done?   His two passengers weren't even charged and gave no resistance while being restrained temporarily on the scene.  

"Use of Force Continuum"      The Office in Charge of the scene ordered weapons holstered, long before that video even started.

It was followed to be honest:

Verbalization — Force is not-physical.  (This went out of the window when he got back into his car and sped away with intent to evade)

    Officers may increase their volume and shorten commands in an attempt to gain compliance. Short commands might include "Stop," or "Don't move."  (Pretty sure before he flipped off the 5.0, verbal commands were used by the LEO's and his passengers.  Comments would have been "WTF are you doing?" or along those lines.

Empty-Hand Control — Officers use bodily force to gain control of a situation. (This was used prior to the video)

    Soft technique. Officers use grabs, holds and joint locks to restrain an individual.
    Hard technique. Officers use punches and kicks to restrain an individual.

Less-Lethal Methods — Officers use less-lethal technologies to gain control of a situation.   (This was used to no effect as well as Empty-Hand)

    Blunt impact. Officers may use a baton or projectile to immobilize a combative person.   (Oh he was combative and charged Officers a couple of times and LEO's aren't too receptive of that.   They also tried a couple of times to hog tie him and finally succeeded)

    Chemical. Officers may use chemical sprays or projectiles embedded with chemicals to restrain an individual (e.g., pepper spray).  (I have never seen a report or heard of this being used, but it wouldn't have mattered)
    Conducted Energy Devices (CEDs). Officers may use CEDs to immobilize an individual. CEDs discharge a high-voltage, low-amperage jolt of electricity at a distance.  (I doubt the tazers back then were as quality as they are today.  Also, they are still know to be fickle at times.)

The only thing left is to use Lethal Force.    So are you implying they shouldn't have holstered weapons?    


Fast forward from 1993 to the present.   Convicted of DUI, running into his wife with a car, a couple more Reckless Driving charges and even another DUI in 2003, after he ran a red light, refused to pull over (there seems to be a pattern here) and ran into a house IIRC.  In 2011, he was cited for Driving without a License and later skipped the hearing, so that was added to him being arrested for Reckless Driving in 2012.  He drowned after a night of drinking, snorting blow and puffing weed.   No sympathy for him here.  

I am trying to wonder what angle you are looking for here?   Comparing Rodney King to the video from the OP, is pointless and a straw man reach at best.   Portions of a City were burned and Reginald Denny took a brick to his head point blank, all because a drunken idiot resisted arrest after breaking countless Misdemeanors and a couple of Felonies in one night.   "Use of Force Continuum" is your hill to die on?  


Semp.   Correct and Thank you.   Three Veterans and myself questioned the authenticity.   Valid points were made/discussed, some went at length and in great detail.   If the video IS real, then I apologize.    

Whoa there big fella... first off my point about the King video was plain and simple: the video we were shown by the media did not tell the entire story.  That is it. Same goes for the soldier's video.  Please to not draw any other conclusions and certainly do not assume anything.  I mentioned the continuum simply to make a statement of fact that pain compliance is what the media (and most viewers) would describe as beating King to within an inch of his life and that is hard to do when the blows are to the legs.  Again, point being is that the video does not tell the entire story.

As for your grandeur speech on the Force Continuum and how it relates to King, his charges/convictions, that situation, the video, etc,....   If I need to spell it out for you I was partially defending the COPs that night because outside of Koon's continued PR24 barrage once King was confined to the ground they did things by the book.  They used OC spray, it didn't work.  They had guns drawn on him, it didn't work. They tried the stun gun (you termed it tazer but that wasn't available until the late 1990's), that didn't work.  Using the PR24 was the next in line in their bag of tricks, and that ultimately did not work.  Also, for what it is worth I wore the star of a deputy for 6 years (2001-2007) and spent more time in classes regarding the use of force the the continuum than I remember.  It all blurs together.  I'm well versed in where and how it begins, ends, and resets.  I'm certainly not defending King in any way. 

Oh, and stop using Wikipedia as your major source of info.      

[Masherbrum]

Whoa there big fella... first off my point about the King video was plain and simple: the video we were shown by the media did not tell the entire story.  That is it. Same goes for the soldier's video.  Please to not draw any other conclusions and certainly do not assume anything.  I mentioned the continuum simply to make a statement of fact that pain compliance is what the media (and most viewers) would describe as beating King to within an inch of his life and that is hard to do when the blows are to the legs.  Again, point being is that the video does not tell the entire story.

As for your grandeur speech on the Force Continuum and how it relates to King, his charges/convictions, that situation, the video, etc,....   If I need to spell it out for you I was partially defending the COPs that night because outside of Koon's continued PR24 barrage once King was confined to the ground they did things by the book.  They used OC spray, it didn't work.  They had guns drawn on him, it didn't work. They tried the stun gun (you termed it tazer but that wasn't available until the late 1990's), that didn't work.  Using the PR24 was the next in line in their bag of tricks, and that ultimately did not work.  Also, for what it is worth I wore the star of a deputy for 6 years (2001-2007) and spent more time in classes regarding the use of force the the continuum than I remember.  It all blurs together.  I'm well versed in where and how it begins, ends, and resets.  I'm certainly not defending King in any way.  

Oh, and stop using Wikipedia as your major source of info.      

Never used Wiki.   Former CJ major, it is ingrained.