Rank modification

[Vinkman]

the suggestion is sound if it can be implemented............but if it cannot, then the added perk influence noted above would still be beneficial IMO.

I suppose that the ratio of freindly players to enemy players  (ever being within 2000yards?) from spawn to landing could be used
 as a multiplier  which = (E+1)/(F+1)

Lets say your "mission" earned 1 perk. But 9 Freindlies had been within 2000 yards and 19 Enemy had been within 2000 yards multiplier =2. Alternativeliy you upped in a horde of 19 Freindlies and an Enemy never came within 2000 yards...........mulitiplier = 0.05.

I think this is fundamentally correct. I would included Energy state (alt+velocity). Such that your Situational Advantage was the (sum of (enemy E-state/ENY))/(sum of (friendly E-state/ENY)) within Icon range. Perks would then be 1*SA

[Tilt]

I think this is fundamentally correct. I would included Energy state (alt+velocity). Such that your Situational Advantage was the (sum of (enemy E-state/ENY))/(sum of (friendly E-state/ENY)) within Icon range.  

Would you not then have to factor in the players comparable e state in every case. e.g I am in a high speed La5FN flying just above a furball  where the enemy has a significant  E (and ENY)advantage over the freindlies.  Actually my SA is very good but the maths above does not show this.

Unfortunately the SA state is too dynamic (IMO) to lock into such maths ................

within a few minutes of the above I could be low, slow and being chased by 2 other La5FN's whilst 20 comrades(in La7's) are zooming down from alt too late to save me. Now my SA is pretty poor but the maths would show it to be quite favourable...............

The two examples shows the dynamic change state without a mechanism to factor into them  some maths that reflect the whole mission (short of computing a running average in real time.)

Also my energy state is a matter of my ACM why should I get a bonus for putting it in a worse situation than my enemy?

Counting each enemy and each freindly to come within #yards is a simple thing............ freindlies and enemies are only counted once and the maths are done upon landing. It may not be as refined as some may wish but it does provide balance when numbers are disproportionate.

I doubt if frequent horde members are that interested in score but if any are, then (this way) they will see the normal perkage earned suffer when mingling with the horde.

[Vinkman]

Would you not then have to factor in the players comparable e state in every case. e.g I am in a high speed La5FN flying just above a furball  where the enemy has a significant  E (and ENY)advantage over the freindlies.  Actually my SA is very good but the maths above does not show this.

Unfortunately the SA state is too dynamic (IMO) to lock into such maths ................

within a few minutes of the above I could be low, slow and being chased by 2 other La5FN's whilst 20 comrades(in La7's) are zooming down from alt too late to save me. Now my SA is pretty poor but the maths would show it to be quite favourable...............

The two examples shows the dynamic change state without a mechanism to factor into them  some maths that reflect the whole mission (short of computing a running average in real time.)

Also my energy state is a matter of my ACM why should I get a bonus for putting it in a worse situation than my enemy?

Counting each enemy and each freindly to come within #yards is a simple thing............ freindlies and enemies are only counted once and the maths are done upon landing. It may not be as refined as some may wish but it does provide balance when numbers are disproportionate.

I doubt if frequent horde members are that interested in score but if any are, then (this way) they will see the normal perkage earned suffer when mingling with the horde.

all good points and choices would have to made. I had envisioned that an enemy gets tagged with an SA score (specific to you) when he enters con-range. The points you get when you kill him are those points, not the points at the time of the kill, which would be changing over the course of the fight. So in your case, because you were higher over the furball, the points "potential" for the planes below you is reduced. Two planes above you, moving faster, would be worth more points, then two planes below you moving slower.  Slow planes on the runway would be almost worthless. Of course everything could be tweaked. The idea is to score it based on the moment you make the choice to engage or not. the big issue with that is planes joining late. If I'm chasing a bandit that has a even score because we were co-SA when we engaged, but a picker comes in later, isn't harder to kill either of them now? so there is something to be said for the istantaneous points. the drawback to instantaneous is dropping on a lower opponent who never had much of a chance, but you blead e on the way down onto his six o'clock so your SA at the time of the kill was closer to even. This wouldn't score correct either. I think there is a way to use both, but many scenarios would have to be examined to find the right balance.
 I wanted to try to look at old films and use this method to score them. But the film viewer would have to have the capability to output the displayed ranges, velocities, and altitudes, by time to perform the calculations. It doesn't, and doing it manually is an exercise in futility, so these ideas sit on hold. 

It is an idea I would love to work on. All I need is a film viewer export Macro. (hint) 

[Tilt]

So it (initial SA ratio) could be used to modify the primary perk points earned for a kill.......................

a range is chosen to initiate the comparison between the player and each enemy as it comes into this range. If the player executes  a kill on any enemy without the enemy leaving that range then the initial E states are factored in.

If either party "extends" beyond that range then the SA ratio is reset when they re enter.

OK its not about numbers of freindlies v numbers of enemy any more its about e states at the biggining of conflicts we win perkies for.

We could still factor in the numbers count separately as a modifier at the end of mission.

By combining the two that way ...we

-devalue vulching
-devalue hording
-enhance the value of reversing combat advantage.
-devalue over extending

used this way IMO................. a good idea

[Vinkman]

So it (initial SA ratio) could be used to modify the primary perk points earned for a kill.......................

a range is chosen to initiate the comparison between the player and each enemy as it comes into this range. If the player executes  a kill on any enemy without the enemy leaving that range then the initial E states are factored in.

If either party "extends" beyond that range then the SA ratio is reset when they re enter.

Yes, you've summed it up nicely...

OK its not about numbers of freindlies v numbers of enemy any more its about e states at the biggining of conflicts we win perkies for.
We could still factor in the numbers count separately as a modifier at the end of mission.

It is, it's just that the numbers are factored in as SA for each plane. So it's [SA(enemy1)+SA(E2)+SA(EN)]/[SA(Friendly1)+SA(F2)+SA(FN)].  Where SA=[(ALT+Velocity)*ENY(f)/ENY(e)],
and where Points = damage/SA

So more Friendlies would mean a HIGHER Situational Advantage score, resulting in lower points (perks) 

By combining the two that way ...we

-devalue vulching
-devalue hording
-enhance the value of reversing combat advantage.
-devalue over extending

used this way IMO................. a good idea

yes , that's the idea.  

[Tilt]

hmm  that seems a lot of maths

In a furball of 5 enemies and 5 freindlies we are calculating the relative SA ( combining the instantaneous SA for the other 9) each time one of those 5  re- enters the range mechanism and ratio'ing it with the principle...............thats a  factorial 10 calculation string  (isnt it?)

to make it universal how would we configure it for bombers and ground attack on objects.

Guess that would have to be calculated at the time at which the object is destroyed.

what if there is no enemy in range when we destroy stuff ...............some logic should be inplace to take the SA calc out of the equation (or insert a 0 enemy factor) in this case

unless it (the SA ratio) is taken out all together for destruction perks earned.

re GV's

is energy state an advantage for GV's? if I am lying in wait the advantage is with me as the other guy drives upto my position yet his energy state is higher...........  velocity should be made negative for GV's IMO whilst there would/may be an advantage if to the higher GV. Probably better to take the energy state out all together for GV's.

It would mean that the perks earned by several gv's spawn camping would be reduced if they were just picking off spawners one at a time as they spawned in.

I thinks the maths have to work universally across all rides or it gets too complex with to many IF's/NANDs/ANDs/THENs etc etc

[Vinkman]

hmm  that seems a lot of maths

In a furball of 5 enemies and 5 freindlies we are calculating the relative SA ( combining the instantaneous SA for the other 9) each time one of those 5  re- enters the range mechanism and ratio'ing it with the principle...............thats a  factorial 10 calculation string  (isnt it?)

to make it universal how would we configure it for bombers and ground attack on objects.

Guess that would have to be calculated at the time at which the object is destroyed.

what if there is no enemy in range when we destroy stuff ...............some logic should be inplace to take the SA calc out of the equation (or insert a 0 enemy factor) in this case

unless it (the SA ratio) is taken out all together for destruction perks earned.

re GV's

is energy state an advantage for GV's? if I am lying in wait the advantage is with me as the other guy drives upto my position yet his energy state is higher...........  velocity should be made negative for GV's IMO whilst there would/may be an advantage if to the higher GV. Probably better to take the energy state out all together for GV's.

It would mean that the perks earned by several gv's spawn camping would be reduced if they were just picking off spawners one at a time as they spawned in.

I thinks the maths have to work universally across all rides or it gets too complex with to many IF's/NANDs/ANDs/THENs etc etc

Each plane needs to track 2 numbers for each other plane. So your plane is tracking 10 planes(yourself included) with 2 numbers each = 20 numbers, and each of the ten planes is doing that so it's 200 numbers for 10 planes. So the overhead formula is 2*(# of planes)^2. I don't think a couple of hundred calculations/sec is a lot overhead.

Since e-state doesn't play much of a part in GV-ing I'd leave those as is for now. It could apply to a bomber. As for attack, mode aircraft, I would have to think about it. Dropping 2x1000lbs bombs on a tigerII  is not very difficult, and exactly as easy as dropping them on a sherman. should a Tiger be werth more perk points based on ENY? probably not. Now if a tank was surrounded by 5 whirbles, and their were 4 enemy planes in the air over the tank, then it would seem a tougher SA situation. I think an SA formula could be worked out for that as well.

Also as a for  vulching, field guns would count as a fraction of a plane, so if you vulch a field with all the guns up, the guns help even up the SA while they are up.
I'm thinking this would just be for fighter perk point calculations. Then add perk points to the rank system.

[Tilt]

Each plane needs to track 2 numbers for each other plane.

And each of those planes numbers are determined by the two numbers of each other plane. These are not fixed and so all values have to be refreshed ( with respect to the new plane) as the new plane comes within range of the player.

Or at least so  I interpret your maths.

[Vinkman]

And each of those planes numbers are determined by the two numbers of each other plane. These are not fixed and so all values have to be refreshed ( with respect to the new plane) as the new plane comes within range of the player.

Or at least so  I interpret your maths.

yes I believe you are correct. I see the SA number being calculated/updated every 1 sec ond or so.