Author Topic: Kills of P51s  (Read 4421 times)

Offline Getback

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Re: Kills of P51s
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2012, 10:57:12 PM »
Where is the honor is expecting a plane that lost it advantage to fight to your planes advantage?


Also Ink Id like to hear you opinion on this  
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,342208.0.html

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Offline Karnak

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Re: Kills of P51s
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2012, 11:58:25 PM »
Where is the honor is expecting a plane that lost it advantage to fight to your planes advantage?
It has nothing to do with honor and everything to do with the satisfaction of being that plane that lost, or didn't have, the advantages, and winning anyways.  If you always bug out when you don't have the advantage you also never get to beat the odds and win the fights you ought to have lost.
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Offline Scotch

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Re: Kills of P51s
« Reply #62 on: December 03, 2012, 12:32:25 AM »
Where is the honor is expecting a plane that lost it advantage to fight to your planes advantage?

In that if roles reversed, you will not give up, and do your best to continue to give your opponent a challenge as well. May the better pilot that fight win.
-AoM-

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Kills of P51s
« Reply #63 on: December 03, 2012, 01:43:11 AM »
I fly a spit XVI, when I get into a turning fight with a Brew or Zeke and lose my advantage I disengage and come back in. Why stick around?

I also fly a Spit XVI and I can't find many Zeke or Brewster drivers that can beat me one on one.  Why?  I stick around to fight even though I may have temporarily lost my advantage.  In fact one night I beat three Brewsters by myself.  Certainly at least one of them always had an advantage on me right?

The difference is when you lose the advantage you look for an exit while I look for a way to get it back.

Now if I could only stop flying into seas of red...
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 01:50:27 AM by BaldEagl »
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline Noir

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Re: Kills of P51s
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2012, 02:30:16 AM »
turnfighting in a P51D is all nice and funny until you cross someone that knows half of his plane and kills you in 2 turns...turny planes crying and making homosexual assumptions about runners always made me giggle.

That said it's funny how you get much more action in a P51D than in a zero for instance, nobody is running from you and every spit wants your scalp  :D
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Offline CZCH64

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Re: Kills of P51s
« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2012, 06:25:06 AM »


The difference is when you lose the advantage you look for an exit while I look for a way to get it back.



Temporary exit.....
aka....... SCRATCH

Offline Debrody

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Re: Kills of P51s
« Reply #66 on: December 03, 2012, 07:02:46 AM »
That said it's funny how you get much more action in a P51D than in a zero for instance, nobody is running from you and every spit wants your scalp  :D
This is so true. Still, i have seen ki84s "trying" to run from a deck Dora after they could not bore-n-zoom me (nippon awesomeness squad and co...)  :rofl

I can understand everyone who is not turning a pony with a spit, those who dont want to fight against 2-3 cons alone, also a BnZ game can be an exciting fight too. It turns into a chicken shizz fest only when someone has no balls to get close to the opponents unless he holds all the cards, such as speed, alt, buddies, etc etc, then when it comes to a same plane co-E 1v1, run like a beyotch. Those are noones.
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Offline Slate

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Re: Kills of P51s
« Reply #67 on: December 03, 2012, 07:58:25 AM »
  I think the Dora and the P51-d a good match. I've had some good fights with some pilots.

 Oh btw killed 18 P-51d's and 2 P-51b's only 2 players twice.  :D
I always wanted to fight an impossible battle against incredible odds.

Offline Karnak

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Re: Kills of P51s
« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2012, 08:18:39 AM »
turnfighting in a P51D is all nice and funny until you cross someone that knows half of his plane and kills you in 2 turns...turny planes crying and making homosexual assumptions about runners always made me giggle.

That said it's funny how you get much more action in a P51D than in a zero for instance, nobody is running from you and every spit wants your scalp  :D
It is news to me that the Mosquito is a "turny" plane.  P-51Ds run from me just the same once they think they've lost the advantage.
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Kills of P51s
« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2012, 08:31:06 AM »
I fixed it for you

Gonna have to side with BigR on this one Cobia.  Based on experience, he's one who fights that 51 low and slow.  haven't seen him running from a fight
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Kills of P51s
« Reply #70 on: December 03, 2012, 08:34:49 AM »
ya there are a few that will fight in the 51....they get the jump on me cuz I think the are just gonna run haha.....see em pass, dont bother doin anything...... then look back and see them right there...oh damn a fighting 51.....those are good fun fights...

I would say 95% just run to friends or BnZ till ya run out of fuel  :D

Gotta admit that turn fighting a Ki-84 in a Mustang would be foolish unless you can keep the fight fast.  Not much point in getting low and slow with an 84 though.   I would agree that there aren't many who 'fight' in it in the classic dogfight that an MA furballer prefers.  But there are a few who've learned to bend it better then most.

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Offline tunnelrat

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Re: Kills of P51s
« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2012, 08:46:36 AM »
If you hold all the cards why fight? Whats the fun if you go into a fight with all the advantages KNOWING that you can't lose? The other side of that coin is staying in a fight even knowing your at a DISadvantage and sticking it out to see if you CAN beat the other guy. You give the other guy all the advantages and still turn the tables on him and win. How much more fun could it be?  

If being at a disadvantage floats one's boat, then wouldn't an adversary in a fast plane with altitude and position + a few friends be your ideal situation?




You know what is kind of funny?  The disparity between the air game and ground game as far as "fighting" goes...  in the MA, the best way to get a <S> or some props on 200 is to fly something slow that turns well.

On the OTHER hand... if you are running GVs, apparently there is some sort of convoluted square dance with a list of unwritten rules that must be followed... you need to grab a tank, go find a spot to "camp" (And woe unto you if you are in someone else's spot!) and TURN OFF YOUR ENGINE!!!  Your mobility is a distant second to your "allies" being able to hear the enemy spawn in!!

So, my taking an M3 with the 75mm gun was apparently a huge faux pas. Now, I will say that doing the "Dukes of Hazard" dixie thing over ranged every time I launched a hill at 50mph may have been excessive.

On the other hand, I cleaned up rather well:

M3 (75mm):

M-18:          9
M4A3(75):    6
M4A3(76)W: 2
PzKpfwIV-F:  16
PzKpfwIV-H: 10
T-34/85:       1


Unfortunately, even at point blank range, I was unable to hole a Königstiger with multiple shots at 6', but it was still fun to scare them.

I was like 10:1 K/D until they figured out could disable/kill me with a .22 Deringer.  Was still fun after that!


Anyway, the lesson learned here is that the way to win friends and influence people in the air and on the ground are basically polar opposites... on the ground you want a heavy, stationary turd, and in the air you want something slow that floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee.  No one really cares about the skill required as far as marksmanship goes in the air, take as many cannon as you want!!  

You guys can talk smack about the P51 all you want...  I'm too much of a crack addled spidermonkey to pull off the E-management required to successfully scrum at MA altitudes in a Bravo while maintaining a safe speed.  The climb rate is meh, the turn rate is quite short lived, and the acceleration ranks right up there with a Toyota Sienna... without a decent amount of altitude, you aren't regaining speed anytime soon.  In fact, once you bleed enough to saddle someone and kill them with 4 .50 cals (Again, talking about my ability here, not some of the bad tulips out there) 80% of the plane set has "all the cards".

I do notice one thing though... I can roll through a furball all day in a Ki-84, which is staggeringly easier to fly under MA conditions than the P-51B, and merrily de-wing opponents all day long with no grief... but man, bring a Bravo to the fight and you up your chances of a whine on 200 by several orders of magnitude.  

It's too bad all the yahoos that fly the La-7 are posers... if a few of the greats were to take that as their chosen ride, they would have to upgrade the BBS code to keep up with the sky is falling whines.

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Offline katanaso

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Re: Kills of P51s
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2012, 08:47:40 AM »
Gotta admit that turn fighting a Ki-84 in a Mustang would be foolish unless you can keep the fight fast.  Not much point in getting low and slow with an 84 though.   I would agree that there aren't many who 'fight' in it in the classic dogfight that an MA furballer prefers.  But there are a few who've learned to bend it better then most.



I do this against Ki84's, with the most recent being Ink.  I can usually tell it's him within the first couple of turns, especially how he gets the Ki84 slow and cuts the corners inside the turning and reversing.  So, I end up losing the fights to him. :)







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Offline Karnak

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Re: Kills of P51s
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2012, 09:39:32 AM »
tunnelrat,

Odd, I've never seen a complaint about the P-51B.  They are very rare.  Last one I recall seeing was about two or three years ago when it dove on my Spitfire Mk XIV.  I was pretty surprised how fast the Spitfire Mk XIV was able to reverse the energy situation and kill the P-51B.

As to your point, well, obviously heavy, poor turning aircraft don't do as well in a slow furball, but there are methods to fight in which things like the Fw190, P-47, P-51, Mosquito and Typhoon can be used aggressively without long stretches of running.  I don't think anybody is suggesting the Me410s should get into slow, horizontal turn fights with A6M5s.
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Offline ink

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Re: Kills of P51s
« Reply #74 on: December 03, 2012, 09:46:17 AM »
Where is the honor is expecting a plane that lost it advantage to fight to your planes advantage?


Also Ink Id like to hear you opinion on this  
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,342208.0.html

I think Cobia summed it up perfectly in that thread.....I would Add........ never would I do that to my self or anyone else....stupidity for sure