Author Topic: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...  (Read 7311 times)

Offline Maverick

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #60 on: December 20, 2012, 04:33:25 PM »
I just don't like any long gun for home defense. Part of that is because I have been rather heavily trained in handgun usage both by the Army and the PD I worked at. Long guns are great, don't get me wrong, I just don't like them for real close quarters and enclosed spaces.

I'd like an AR in either 5.56 as well as 308 just to be able to shoot them. I had a chance to fire more than a couple M16's as well as other items like the old M3 and M3A1 grease gun. It was still issue for tanks way back when. I like a heavier round for most things but with the right bullet a 5.56 would be OK for most hog hunting. The 308 may be a tad overkill but it gets the job done in my experience.

I like shooting a variety of things from wheel guns to semi's to single shots and even black powder. They each have their good points and bad points. To me it's a challenge to shoot well with each and I look to make the smallest group possible when I can.

I made my living with a gun and had to depend on one more than once. I do not want to be without the option, especially now that I'm older and less able to go hand to hand like I used to.
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Offline RedTop

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #61 on: December 20, 2012, 04:49:15 PM »
Interesting replies folks...thanks for the input...Just curious as to peoples thoughts....

Hey!!! Ya'll have a great and Merry Christmas....

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Offline Gman

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2012, 04:51:14 PM »
Frangible ammo isn't all it is cracked up to be in terms of not penetrating barriers that it is suppose to break up upon striking.  My business in Canada was the national distributor for the largest manufacturer of "Frangible" ammo, and I've tested it in a lot of different ways.  Example, the 75 gr 9mm ++P ammo, the bullet that was "frangible" would in fact penetrate a lot of soft stuff like drywall and even wood framing etc easily, and would blow through a cheap level 2 or 2a vest, both panels.  It would break up on REALLY hard stuff, but I wouldn't trust it indoors to perform as advertised, and I certainly wouldn't trust the rifle calibers like .223/5.56 indoors.  The Air Marshals aren't using it, if that gives you any indications of how well it works, they are using another type of load/bullet.  I can talk more about this if you're interested by PM, with some videos and pics as well.

What others have said here is sound, a handgun or shotgun, preferably with lower velocity rounds, or in the case of the shotgun, something NOT heavy buckshot or slug is the best solution inside the home or even indoors at other locations.  I prefer teaching the shotgun, as it is a better weapon in terms of gross motor skill functions, and ease of training, as the handgun is a little harder to become really proficient with due to the loss of fine motor skills during a gun fight.  It is also cheaper, and more lethal, and being shoulder supported will get more hits in a fight than a pistol with an average skilled shooter.  It is also versatile, buy combat loading slugs or other rounds, you can have all the penetrating power you will likely ever need if it is required quickly if your "indoor" load isn't sufficient for a threat, or a situation with a threat changing.


Off topic:  Maverick, when you were in Armor, did you ever have occasion to see or fire those little M16 shorty things that were in the early Bradleys?   The were full auto only short barrel no stock things in a ball swivel mount as I recall, and used to spraying infantry off of wingman Bradleys and the like I think.  Those always interested me, but you don't see them anymore.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 04:56:38 PM by Gman »

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #63 on: December 20, 2012, 05:01:21 PM »
The OPs question is simple. Why do we need multile 30 RD mags? To answer this question you have to look at the wording of the second admedment. "A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." We as Americans have the unique right to form a army used to fight against a hypothetical tyrannical government. To become a well regulated militia, you first need to become regular with your weapon. This includes types of training that become next to impossible with lowcap mags. We have the right to own weapons of war because without them we wouldn't be the free country we are today.

I hope that clears it up a little - SunFan

Suns that's a stretch. How the well regulated militia is organized and trained is also included.  It has nothing to do with individuals training themselves.  It has everything to do with states training their militia with a federally designed program so that in emergency the country can call on the state militias if needed. 

You could better argue that the state should provide the gun to those willing to serve the state militia and submit to state provided regulation and training.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #64 on: December 20, 2012, 05:16:56 PM »
I do not think a new "AWB" will take effect.  The first one was a farce and it did nothing.  The worst thing about the '94 to '04 "Assault Weapons Ban" was the inability to buy magazines of more than 10 rounds.  We could still buy Ar15's, AK variants, etc, but certain cosmetic features were not allowed.  Basically, the US public could buy an AR15 but it could not have a telescoping stock or a detachable muzzle device of any sort (the "flash suppressor").

I guess I'm lucky in the fact that I have all the rifles I want (or "need"), all the high capacity semi-auto pistols I want (or need), and all the high capacity magazines I need (or want), that I do not have to rush out and buy in this panic.  I was just in Cabelas in Mitchell, SD, today and they have sold completely out of AR15's and any other "fun gun".  Oh, and not a high capacity AR15 magazine was found, either.  One of the clerks told me that management had doubled and tripled the prices on certain items and they still sold out.

A person could buy new and still in the wrap USGI 30rd magazines for the M4/AR15 2 weeks ago for about $9 shipped per mag.  Now, they are going for $30-40 a mag shipped.  Amazing.  I'll admit that I did buy an AR15 receiver online yesterday for $80, but the vendor is now sold out.  I only did so because the price had not been jacked up just yet, most websites are selling AR15 receivers for near $300 now.

Cabela's was out of rifles and hi-cap rifle magazines, and had very few hi-cap pistol mags left on the shelves.  Oh, the ammo... the already over inflated ammo was almost gone too.  When 5.56 NATO ammo is almost 50 cents a round you know someone is making a boat load of profit somewhere.  They've just jacked up the price again thanks to the panic buying.  It was over 60 cents a round.  Thankfully I reload and can do 5.56 NATO for less than 18 cents a round.

I cant wait for the panic to settle down.  Wowza.   :bhead  
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Offline 1sum41

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #65 on: December 20, 2012, 05:17:52 PM »
I have them because they are fun to shoot, great for hunting, great for home defense, and the best for competition shooting. I have four ar15s (one legion and three s&w m&ps) and 2 of the Draco ak47s  :) :salute

Offline Ardy123

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #66 on: December 20, 2012, 05:26:24 PM »
Suns that's a stretch. How the well regulated militia is organized and trained is also included.  It has nothing to do with individuals training themselves.  It has everything to do with states training their militia with a federally designed program so that in emergency the country can call on the state militias if needed.  

You could better argue that the state should provide the gun to those willing to serve the state militia and submit to state provided regulation and training.

Guppy, you are by far the most honest person here.
If the AR owners here are going to be honest, and I'm one of them, they'll tell you that part of it fills that little kid GI Joe fantasy we all had.  They look cool and they are fun to shoot.  They serve no other purpose.
And there is no shame in it either...
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Offline ink

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #67 on: December 20, 2012, 05:37:33 PM »
every gun store is selling out everywhere in America....even in Connecticut.........



I used to have 2...... I believe they were Romanian  made Mac 90's....same thing as the AK47 7.62  I had 8 30 round mags and 2 75 rd drums...at the same time I had a Chinese SKS and a pistol on pistol grip pump shotgun with the extended tube and heat shield.......plus a 9 mm P Beretta(dont remember who made the 9 or shotgun)

 man I tell ya it was a blast going through all those mags and the drums.....

thats when I didn't have kids and didn't care about anything, I was not "allowed" to own them due to something I did at 17 yrs old.....but I still had them.......I did get rid of all the firearms once the wife and I started having kids, not because I didn't want to raise my kids around them, I didn't want loose my kids due to having them.

they are fun.....but also very serious.....

oh and whoever said "Chinese crap"   I liked my SKS quite a bit...very good gun.....mine was extremely accurate.

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #68 on: December 20, 2012, 06:02:40 PM »
I do not think a new "AWB" will take effect.  The first one was a farce and it did nothing.  The worst thing about the '94 to '04 "Assault Weapons Ban" was the inability to buy magazines of more than 10 rounds.  We could still buy Ar15's, AK variants, etc, but certain cosmetic features were not allowed.  Basically, the US public could buy an AR15 but it could not have a telescoping stock or a detachable muzzle device of any sort (the "flash suppressor").

I guess I'm lucky in the fact that I have all the rifles I want (or "need"), all the high capacity semi-auto pistols I want (or need), and all the high capacity magazines I need (or want), that I do not have to rush out and buy in this panic.  I was just in Cabelas in Mitchell, SD, today and they have sold completely out of AR15's and any other "fun gun".  Oh, and not a high capacity AR15 magazine was found, either.  One of the clerks told me that management had doubled and tripled the prices on certain items and they still sold out.

A person could buy new and still in the wrap USGI 30rd magazines for the M4/AR15 2 weeks ago for about $9 shipped per mag.  Now, they are going for $30-40 a mag shipped.  Amazing.  I'll admit that I did buy an AR15 receiver online yesterday for $80, but the vendor is now sold out.  I only did so because the price had not been jacked up just yet, most websites are selling AR15 receivers for near $300 now.

Cabela's was out of rifles and hi-cap rifle magazines, and had very few hi-cap pistol mags left on the shelves.  Oh, the ammo... the already over inflated ammo was almost gone too.  When 5.56 NATO ammo is almost 50 cents a round you know someone is making a boat load of profit somewhere.  They've just jacked up the price again thanks to the panic buying.  It was over 60 cents a round.  Thankfully I reload and can do 5.56 NATO for less than 18 cents a round.

I cant wait for the panic to settle down.  Wowza.   :bhead  

Ironic isn't it that the only ones who are really going to benefit from this are the gun makers.  Panic buying, prices going through the roof etc.  Capitalism at its best and worst I guess.

As for the first 'ban'.  You are right.  It was purely window dressing.  You could buy used 30 round mags during the ban no problem. They just weren't producing new ones for sale. 

Photo of the two ARs I had.  I sold the bottom one but still have the top.  Top is a 'Ban' gun made during that time.   No flash suppressor, no bayonet lug, and the stock is pinned so it won't telescope.  That made it not an assault rifle.

Bottom one has a flash suppressor, bayonet lug and telescoping stock.  That made it an assault rifle.

Both shoot the same round at the same rate.  Both handle 30 round magazines.  If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.    That was the difference.  And you could still buy 'pre-ban' rifles that were already in circulation.  In the end, as I said the folks who benefited most were the guys selling and making the guns.  Prices for everything went up.  The anti-gun folks could claim they'd gotten something done, and the NRA could point to it and say 'they're coming after your guns!" when in fact neither group was telling the truth.

In the end my guess is they'll reinstate the 'ban' and both sides will get the same thing they got last time with no one really benefiting beyond those selling the guns



This was my son' ban gun.  He wanted an M4 clone.  Sure looks the part doesn't it.  You'd have to try and close the stock or look at the mock 'suppressor' to see the difference.

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Offline BoilerDown

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #69 on: December 20, 2012, 06:49:14 PM »
A lot of conversation about this at work today.  Just as an FYI, I own paintball guns and nerf guns, but I don't own any actual guns, and don't feel the need to either.  At work people were saying its like an investment.  They figure there's a good chance things will soon be outlawed.  Things like the AR-15 itself, and large magazines.  So those 30-round AR-15 mags, even if you pay a jacked-up price now, will be worth far more than that in 10 years after they've been outlawed for 9 years.

Anyways, that was the reasoning I heard.

Makes me wish I was selling something everyone though was going to be banned.
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2012, 07:02:23 PM »
If you really want to be mad at anything, it's those taking advantage of the incident to raise prices on AR-15s. 

If you really want one, you can get one.  It might take a bit longer and cost you more, but you'll always be able to get an AR15.   I paid 400 bucks in 1980 for my first.  Sold it when I got married.  Still regret that....Bought one again when my son was old enough.  He saved his money and I bought one for me.  Think we spent about 1000 bucks each at that point.   Both were ban guns.  Pre-ban guns were going for 1500 or more then.  The same exact gun I'd paid 400 for in 1980 was a minimum 1500 then.   prices fell off when the 'ban' ended and I bought one more for 800.  That was about 2006.  Now a bare bones AR is going for 1200 again and more.  Prices jumped 300 bucks from Friday to Tuesday.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #71 on: December 20, 2012, 07:50:01 PM »
every gun store is selling out everywhere in America....even in Connecticut.........

I used to have 2...... I believe they were Romanian  made Mac 90's....same thing as the AK47 7.62  I had 8 30 round mags and 2 75 rd drums...at the same time I had a Chinese SKS and a pistol on pistol grip pump shotgun with the extended tube and heat shield.......plus a 9 mm P Beretta(dont remember who made the 9 or shotgun)

 man I tell ya it was a blast going through all those mags and the drums.....

thats when I didn't have kids and didn't care about anything, I was not "allowed" to own them due to something I did at 17 yrs old.....but I still had them.......I did get rid of all the firearms once the wife and I started having kids, not because I didn't want to raise my kids around them, I didn't want loose my kids due to having them.

they are fun.....but also very serious.....

oh and whoever said "Chinese crap"   I liked my SKS quite a bit...very good gun.....mine was extremely accurate.

If your AK variant was Romanian, it was not an "MAK 90".  Those were Chinese made by a company called "Norinco", the "MAK 90" was their shelf name for their semi-auto AKM.  The BATF-E prohibited the Chinese from importing any more AK variant firearms when by pure luck a boat full of full auto MAK 90's were found off the coast of CA heading for the civilian market.  The Chinese didn't make junk AK's as some may suggest, but they did like many others trying to make a profit: they changed some dimensions of a few things so that only Norinco brand mags and parts would fit in an otherwise standardized platform.  I used to own an unfired Norinco NHM-91 (heavy barrel AK w/ bi-pod, sort of the SAW variant of the AK's), but sold it for a nice profit.  Norinco makes a good product, but they are sort of like HK: they cant standardize jack and they refuse (or cant) be like anyone else.  

Regarding your Chinese SKS you used to own, here is an interesting ti-bit: Back in 1992 or 1993 I went to a gun show in Sioux City, Iowa, and a dealer was selling Chinese SKS's.  I think her had 3 or 4 of those 35 gallon cardboard barrels full of Chinese SKS's with many of them having the fixed 20rd magazine (yes, 20rd fixed mag not the typical 10rd) and he was selling them for 1 for $90, 2 for $160, or 3 for $225.  They all looked like they had been through the Vietnam War and then drug across the ocean floor on their way to the US, but they still worked.  A friend of mine bought one and still has it to this day.  I waited and bought a pristine Russian SKS for $130 circa 1996.   :D    

In regards to owning/not owning firearms with kids around, I understand fully both sides of the coin.  I have a 10 yo son and a 7 yo girl and guess what, they both know the importance of gun safety.  They both know guns are not toys, and they both know to leave a place ASAP if a gun comes out by someone other than an adult.  Also, both of my kids know, if need be, to unload most firearms.  Ditto for my wife.  I have a 900 lb gun safe that has all of my firearms in it (save for 1 locked up next to my bed), and no one has access (the combination) to the firearms in this house other than me, my wife, my father, and a close friend of the family.  To me, it is more important to expose children early and teach them the rights and wrongs of firearms, the importance of gun safety, and the responsibility of having a gun in your hands. My kids get a bit edgy when the neighbor kids start pointing their realistic toy guns around at anything and anyone.  However, I understand the angle of shielding children as well, although I disagree with it.  To each his own.  

FWIW, I'm not made at any dealer or person who is selling their "assault" rifles, magazines, etc, for inflated prices.  I understand the concept but I hope it is all for naught.  I was lucky enough over the years to buy here and there so when the SHTF in CT this past week and the media, the anti's, and other "anointed" people started talking about a new AWB, etc, I didn't have a hint of panic.  I have plenty of everything for me and to pass down when the time comes.  If it does happen, the value of SKS's are going to skyrocket, too.   :lol

Also, someone said that AR15's are good for nothing other than acting out a young boy's GI Joe dream, I beg to differ.  I'll forgo the political side of things for obvious reasons, but FWIW I used my full sized Colt AR15 HBAR (heavy barrel) with great effect vs prairie dogs back in the mid 1990's, and I still use it today to hunt coyotes (I call them in, no redneck truck hunting by me).  For prairie dogs I would load up the 20rd mags, lay on top of a prairie dog mound, and lay waste to everything inside 200 yards on a consistent basis.  I reload ammo and fine tune it to the rifle, and I had the trigger smoothed out by a gunsmith.  I could keep up with most bolt guns.  So good for nothing??? Nah, I'll argue against that all day long.   :aok  

As most of us know, an "assault rifle" is select fire meaning it can select semi-auto or full auto/burst.  In order to have a true assault rifle in the US, first you have to live in a State that allows them.  Second, you must go through a major back ground check including the reach around from Fat Bastard.  Thirdly, pay a major tax to own one and the BATF-E knows you have it, too.  Oh, did I mention the actual cost of buying one usually reaches 5 digits?  The only difference between an AR15, Browning BAR (hunting rifle, not the WWII BAR squad support MG), and a Ruger Mini-14, is the appearance.  That is it.  Hopefully, people will come to terms with that real quickly.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 07:55:52 PM by SmokinLoon »
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #72 on: December 20, 2012, 07:56:45 PM »
That was me Smokinloon.  I said it in regards to the guys with 16 inch barrel ARs.  I'm an AR owner.  Just saying it like it is.  They look cool, sound cool, and are fun to shoot.  They serve no great purpose though.  I'm any thing but anti AR-15s.  I've owned a number of them and still do.

The real shooters get the full length guns with barrels meant for accuracy.   They don't need 30 round or Beta C mags for hunting prairie dogs

I bet you didn't add all kinds of things to your 20 inch AR to make it more ready for you to 'go tactical' :)
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Offline ink

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #73 on: December 20, 2012, 08:02:23 PM »
If your AK variant was Romanian, it was not an "MAK 90".  Those were Chinese made by a company called "Norinco", the "MAK 90" was their shelf name for their semi-auto AKM.  The BATF-E prohibited the Chinese from importing any more AK variant firearms when by pure luck a boat full of full auto MAK 90's were found off the coast of CA heading for the civilian market.  The Chinese didn't make junk AK's as some may suggest, but they did like many others trying to make a profit: they changed some dimensions of a few things so that only Norinco brand mags and parts would fit in an otherwise standardized platform.  I used to own an unfired Norinco NHM-91 (heavy barrel AK w/ bi-pod, sort of the SAW variant of the AK's), but sold it for a nice profit.  Norinco makes a good product, but they are sort of like HK: they cant standardize jack and they refuse (or cant) be like anyone else.  

Regarding your Chinese SKS you used to own, here is an interesting ti-bit: Back in 1992 or 1993 I went to a gun show in Sioux City, Iowa, and a dealer was selling Chinese SKS's.  I think her had 3 or 4 of those 35 gallon cardboard barrels full of Chinese SKS's with many of them having the fixed 20rd magazine (yes, 20rd fixed mag not the typical 10rd) and he was selling them for 1 for $90, 2 for $160, or 3 for $225.  They all looked like they had been through the Vietnam War and then drug across the ocean floor on their way to the US, but they still worked.  A friend of mine bought one and still has it to this day.  I waited and bought a pristine Russian SKS for $130 circa 1996.   :D    

In regards to owning/not owning firearms with kids around, I understand fully both sides of the coin.  I have a 10 yo son and a 7 yo girl and guess what, they both know the importance of gun safety.  They both know guns are not toys, and they both know to leave a place ASAP if a gun comes out by someone other than an adult.  Also, both of my kids know, if need be, to unload most firearms.  Ditto for my wife.  I have a 900 lb gun safe that has all of my firearms in it (save for 1 locked up next to my bed), and no one has access (the combination) to the firearms in this house other than me, my wife, my father, and a close friend of the family.  To me, it is more important to expose children early and teach them the rights and wrongs of firearms, the importance of gun safety, and the responsibility of having a gun in your hands. My kids get a bit edgy when the neighbor kids start pointing their realistic toy guns around at anything and anyone.  However, I understand the angle of shielding children as well, although I disagree with it.  To each his own.  

FWIW, I'm not made at any dealer or person who is selling their "assault" rifles, magazines, etc, for inflated prices.  I understand the concept but I hope it is all for naught.  I was lucky enough over the years to buy here and there so when the SHTF in CT this past week and the media, the anti's, and other "anointed" people started talking about a new AWB, etc, I didn't have a hint of panic.  I have plenty of everything for me and to pass down when the time comes.  If it does happen, the value of SKS's are going to skyrocket, too.   :lol

Also, someone said that AR15's are good for nothing other than acting out a young boy's GI Joe dream, I beg to differ.  I'll forgo the political side of things for obvious reasons, but FWIW I used my full sized Colt AR15 HBAR (heavy barrel) with great effect vs prairie dogs back in the mid 1990's, and I still use it today to hunt coyotes (I call them in, no redneck truck hunting by me).  For prairie dogs I would load up the 20rd mags, lay on top of a prairie dog mound, and lay waste to everything inside 200 yards on a consistent basis.  I reload ammo and fine tune it to the rifle, and I had the trigger smoothed out by a gunsmith.  I could keep up with most bolt guns.  So good for nothing??? Nah, I'll argue against that all day long.   :aok  

As most of us know, an "assault rifle" is select fire meaning it can select semi-auto or full auto/burst.  In order to have a true assault rifle in the US, first you have to live in a State that allows them.  Second, you must go through a major back ground check including the reach around from Fat Bastard.  Thirdly, pay a major tax to own one and the BATF-E knows you have it, too.  Oh, did I mention the actual cost of buying one usually reaches 5 digits?  The only difference between an AR15, Browning BAR (hunting rifle, not the WWII BAR squad support MG), and a Ruger Mini-14, is the appearance.  That is it.  Hopefully, people will come to terms with that real quickly.

this was many years ago....I am no gun expert by any means so I could be wrong....I know for sure they were 7.62...were not fully auto....I was told they were "mac 90's"  they looked like AK's to me haha...but I thought for sure I saw "made in Romania" (or something along those lines)

and both of those with all mags and drums were givin to me as a gift :D  I did a tat for the SKS and shotgun.  

and ya as far as kids they most certainly should be taught about guns, especially if in the same house....its keeping them secret where some accidents happen.

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #74 on: December 20, 2012, 08:18:48 PM »
That was me Smokinloon.  I said it in regards to the guys with 16 inch barrel ARs.  I'm an AR owner.  Just saying it like it is.  They look cool, sound cool, and are fun to shoot.  They serve no great purpose though.  I'm any thing but anti AR-15s.  I've owned a number of them and still do.

The real shooters get the full length guns with barrels meant for accuracy.   They don't need 30 round or Beta C mags for hunting prairie dogs

I bet you didn't add all kinds of things to your 20 inch AR to make it more ready for you to 'go tactical' :)

Nope.  I have not done any of the tacti-coolio BS many guys do to make themselves feel "high speed", not then and not now.  For clarification, I sold my first Colt AR15 in 1998 for double what I paid for it back in 1993, then built a carbine (CAR-15) and used that until 2004 when I bought the current pride of the gun safe, my Colt AR15 Model "MT6700".  The MT6700 was made in 1998 during the AWB and it did not have the flash suppressor on it and it was a heavy barrel, so when I bought it I sent the upper down to a gunsmith in FL who turned the barrel down to the M16A4 profile and threaded the end of the barrel for a FS.  I also bought a ACOG TA31 and mounted that on top, so essentially I have an AR15"A4".  That is it, no tacti-coolio BS for me, don't need it.  It shoots like a dream and I'm sure I could sell it for double or maybe even triple what I have in to it, but I wont.  As far as mags go, I have 40+ USGI/STANAG 30rd mags with 20 of them being new in the wrapper, another 13 USGI 20rd mags, 7 Lancer 20rd mags, and a couple of Colt 8 rd mags.  Oh, and I have a single black Pmag I got in another deal.  Like I said I did order another receiver for $80 last night ($94 shipped), but I have no idea what I will be doing with it. My Sig 226 and Browning Hi-Power each have 6+ factory hi-caps. Two weeks ago AR15 30rd USGI/STANAG mags could be had for about $9 shipped.... now???  :eek:       
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.