Author Topic: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...  (Read 7278 times)

Offline Ardy123

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #75 on: December 20, 2012, 09:14:36 PM »
I have a 900 lb gun safe that has all of my firearms in it (save for 1 locked up next to my bed), and no one has access (the combination) to the firearms in this house other than me, my wife, my father, and a close friend of the family.  To me, it is more important to expose children early and teach them the rights and wrongs of firearms, the importance of gun safety, and the responsibility of having a gun in your hands.
So Important!!! IF the mother of the recent shooter had done this, he wouldn't not have had access to the weapons.

As most of us know, an "assault rifle" is select fire meaning it can select semi-auto or full auto/burst.  In order to have a true assault rifle in the US, first you have to live in a State that allows them.  Second, you must go through a major back ground check including the reach around from Fat Bastard.  Thirdly, pay a major tax to own one and the BATF-E knows you have it, too.  Oh, did I mention the actual cost of buying one usually reaches 5 digits?  The only difference between an AR15, Browning BAR (hunting rifle, not the WWII BAR squad support MG), and a Ruger Mini-14, is the appearance.  That is it.  Hopefully, people will come to terms with that real quickly.

I was always under the impression that one could easily convert many 'semi-auto' guns to 'auto' (sometimes as simple as filing down the firing pin). Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that one can even own the parts to an automatic weapon as long as it is not assembled. Maybe the gun laws shouldn't be focused on magazine size but on making it more difficult to convert weapons to auto.
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Offline Slash27

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #76 on: December 20, 2012, 09:15:14 PM »
If your AK variant was Romanian, it was not an "MAK 90".  Those were Chinese made by a company called "Norinco", the "MAK 90" was their shelf name for their semi-auto AKM.  The BATF-E prohibited the Chinese from importing any more AK variant firearms when by pure luck a boat full of full auto MAK 90's were found off the coast of CA heading for the civilian market.  The Chinese didn't make junk AK's as some may suggest, but they did like many others trying to make a profit: they changed some dimensions of a few things so that only Norinco brand mags and parts would fit in an otherwise standardized platform.  I used to own an unfired Norinco NHM-91 (heavy barrel AK w/ bi-pod, sort of the SAW variant of the AK's), but sold it for a nice profit.  Norinco makes a good product, but they are sort of like HK: they cant standardize jack and they refuse (or cant) be like anyone else.  
 
PolyTech's were also called MAK-90s. Got mine for $175, the guy assumed it was Chinese crap. I still smile thinking about that. :D

Offline Slash27

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #77 on: December 20, 2012, 09:32:37 PM »
I was always under the impression that one could easily convert many 'semi-auto' guns to 'auto' (sometimes as simple as filing down the firing pin). Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that one can even own the parts to an automatic weapon as long as it is not assembled. Maybe the gun laws shouldn't be focused on magazine size but on making it more difficult to convert weapons to auto.

Depends on what you think is "easy". You can go turn a few screws in the garage and make your AR or AK a machine gun. You could buy drop in auto sears for ARs for awhile but I thought you had to have a rifle that would accept them or there was quite a bit of gunsmithing involved. And there are laws about full auto weapons. Tons of paperwork with the ATF not to mention full autos are now rich boy toys. Collectors spend tens of thousands of dollars to own them not mention how much it costs for ammo to go play.

Offline Ardy123

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #78 on: December 20, 2012, 09:40:04 PM »
I guessing you mean?
You can't go turn a few screws in the garage and make your AR or AK a machine gun.

Well, someone could change a gun to full auto and 'fail' to comply with the law. Granted it would be illegal but so are mass shootings. If the parts were not available, then it would not be an option for people who may be inclined to do so. For some reason I vaguely remember there being a gun where it was as simple as filing the firing pin down...hmmm :headscratch:
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 09:46:06 PM by Ardy123 »
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #79 on: December 20, 2012, 10:33:42 PM »
Search 'Bump Fire" some time Ardy.  Folks make em shoot that fast without doing anything illegal.  Not very accurate but they spray.

This is my late son's AK built on a Polish PKMS kit.  It was built during the 'ban'.   Absolutely nothing about it is not assault weapon.  All the builder had to do was pin the underfolding stock so it wouldn't fold, and add a bead weld on the bayonet lug.  AK magazines were and are plentiful.  Looks mean doesn't it.  The day the ban ended, the pin got taken out and the bead weld knocked off.

As mentioned, not much of a ban but it made some folks feel better.

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Offline Slash27

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #80 on: December 20, 2012, 11:00:04 PM »
I guessing you mean?
Well, someone could change a gun to full auto and 'fail' to comply with the law. Granted it would be illegal but so are mass shootings. If the parts were not available, then it would not be an option for people who may be inclined to do so. For some reason I vaguely remember there being a gun where it was as simple as filing the firing pin down...hmmm :headscratch:

You file down the firing pin and now you have a gun that won't shoot. People so inclined to break the law are going to continue to do so no matter how many laws you make. If someone is hell bent on being bank robber a desires to aquire dynamite and full auto illegal AK to pull it off, guess what he's going to go out and get?

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #81 on: December 20, 2012, 11:03:05 PM »
It is nearly impossible to convert an AR15 to a full auto rifle.  Here is why- since at least 1988 most if not all of the AR15 receivers have been made with a wee bit less milling done to the receiver right where the auto sear would "drop in".  Also, the receivers need another hole drilled for the full auto pin to added to the receiver even IF there was room to "drop in" the full auto sear.  Having the exact plans, a precision CAD mill, and the chemicals to anodize the receiver is not only very costly but having the knowledge to do that work is mind numbing.  So no, it is not easy in the least bit.  A person is better off paying the tax and spending $10,000-$20,000 on a registered full auto firearm.

The same goes for the AK variants we see on the market today.  A person has to first get the receiver plans, get a mill, find a machinist, get the proper parts, and install them properly.  It is no easy task and in many ways the AK's are more finicky when being tinkered with because the timing is even more important for the gas system of an AK to get correct and if the job is done by a shade tree gunsmith the odds of the AK being destroyed increases 10 fold.  I'm not a gunsmith but I do know there is a timing issue that is present in the AK's that is not an issue in the AR's.

Either way it is HIGHLY complex and not worth it.  

As far as "filing the firing pin down" legend goes, the only thing I am aware of is the old SKS trick and that is something I've seen in person (and it was done not on purpose).  First, it has to be a Chinese SKS because all other countries that used the SKS's have "firing pin return springs" in their models.  The firing pin in a Chinese SKS can get stuck in the forward position once a groove has been worn in to the pin where it penetrates through the bolt face and in to the chamber.  This is cause by thousands and thousands of rounds being fired and the firing pin being of a harder/softer metal than the bolt.  The firing pin gets wedged in the forward position. Essentially, the firing pin is always "active" and as soon as the bolt slams home a cartridge in the chamber the round is fired, no trigger pull is needed since the hammer does not need to be dropped.  My friend who bought the Chinese SKS back in 92 or 93 has had this happen to him a couple of times, luckily he is prepared and when it fires on full auto there is usually only 4-5 rounds left in the rifle, he just holds on for the ride and lets the magazine empty out, after all we're talking about 1-2 seconds.  :D  I've offered to repair it for him but he oddly declines.  :headscratch:  ;)    

In short, there are lots of BS out there about firearms that lives on in urban legends.  I just read where the shooter in CT "maximized" his rifle to do the most damage.  He taped together 2 mags "jungle style" so he could change mags very quickly (only idiots do that to AR mags), and the ammo he used was "deep penetrating frangible ammo".... yeah, you read right. I did a :bhead after I read that. Folks, frangible ammo is designed to come apart upon impact and NOT penetrate deeply.  An FMJ would penetrate far more deeper than frangible ammo.  Either way a person shot at point blank range is going to be badly hurt or even killed (btw, not that it matters but does everyone know that the 5.56 NATO penetrates best at 200 yards and not point blank?).  Again, this is what we get when "journalist" who know nothing about a subject report and in issue with an intent on creating drama.  Anyone remember the Wincherster Black Talon pistol ammo "buzz saw effect" from about 15 years ago???   :bhead :bhead :bhead
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #82 on: December 20, 2012, 11:06:14 PM »
See, I don't get the logic within the last couple of years and with the .223 AR-15s popularity in the private/civi market... it has to be for "style" - either you like it or fear not being able to get it at some point in the future... now a .308 or 7.62, that I can actualy USE for hunting or defense AND make some nice holes in cans/targets all day without breaking the bank.


This is an interesting discussion, I hope so long as people keep the strength and restraint up it won't get locked.


A lot here seem to have a first-hand, I'm more curious about handgun sales as a whole this week - are they up, who's buying, are they looking for information/education and/or purely aquirement?

Among the many in our local group, we have a term for guys enamored with the AR-15 and clones.. Tacticool. They like the tacticool look. The market is now loaded with .22 caliber rifles that are knockoffs of the AR-15, AKs, H&Ks and Sigs. There's a huge aftermarket to create tacticool Ruger 10/22s as well. Yet, everyone of those is less accurate than my .22 cal Henry lever gun. Simple blow back actions don't lock up tight. They rely on a recoil spring to keep the bolt snug up against the cartridge base. Lever guns lock up tight. Bolt guns lock up tighter still. The guys who buy these things remind me of the 40-something lawyers dressed in leather riding their Hogs on the weekend. It's all about image. Self image and that projected. Still others are preparing for some mysterious SHTF event and watching the Walking Dead like it was the history channel... If they are really into Prepping, they would be better served by an ultra-reliable AK type and a simple bolt or lever gun of sufficient caliber to take game big enough to feed the family. I know one guy who has stockpiled over 80,000 round of 5.56mm ammo. I can think of a better use for that amount of money (at 30 cents per round, do the math).

Here in New York State, there's been a ban on new magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds (excluding fixed, tubular magazines) since 1994. You can use pre-ban magazines in post-ban guns, so everyone looks to buy older mags.

As for me, I have several of the evil, so called "assault weapons", and have owned them for over 20 years. It's very rare that I even take them out of the safe, much less shoot them. I've sold some of them because I just don't use them. Frankly, I would not feel under-gunned with one of my Enfields or Mausers. My various lever rifles are more than adequate for any need I can foretell. My 12 gauge pump security shotgun is more than enough to keep the criminals out of the house. The tacticool guns are not something I need, nor want to spend a fortune on loading them down with the latest tactical add-ons and optics.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that shooting the tacticool guns isn't fun. I'm saying that it's no more entertaining than shooting almost anything else. Keep in mind that I get to shoot just about every small arm in the DOD's inventory, and most of the LRIP stuff not yet approved or issued.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #83 on: December 20, 2012, 11:08:53 PM »
Search 'Bump Fire" some time Ardy.  Folks make em shoot that fast without doing anything illegal.  Not very accurate but they spray.

This is my late son's AK built on a Polish PKMS kit.  It was built during the 'ban'.   Absolutely nothing about it is not assault weapon.  All the builder had to do was pin the underfolding stock so it wouldn't fold, and add a bead weld on the bayonet lug.  AK magazines were and are plentiful.  Looks mean doesn't it.  The day the ban ended, the pin got taken out and the bead weld knocked off.

As mentioned, not much of a ban but it made some folks feel better.

(Image removed from quote.)

Nice looking PKM/MS.   :)

I had a VERY nice Polish PMK/MS (AKMS, or an AK w/ and underfolder stock for you newbs  :D ), built on a NDS receiver than had matching serial numbers.  I had it built in 2007, I even had a number of the highly coveted 30rd Polish polymer mags as well,  It was a beautiful carbine, I would fold the stock and put it on the shelf of my gun safe, that thing was compact once folded!  Anyways, I sold it and invested the funds in to a Triumph motorcycle. I got out of AK's altogether and went with AR's and Sig 556's.  :aok
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #84 on: December 20, 2012, 11:12:32 PM »
PolyTech's were also called MAK-90s. Got mine for $175, the guy assumed it was Chinese crap. I still smile thinking about that. :D

I have a MAK-90, circa 1992.... Changed out the thumbhole stock shortly after I got it....



A similarly stocked SKS...



I haven't fired either in 15 years...
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Offline Slash27

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #85 on: December 20, 2012, 11:20:56 PM »
 Anyone remember the Wincherster Black Talon pistol ammo "buzz saw effect" from about 15 years ago???   :bhead :bhead :bhead
Just talking about that a few days ago with a buddy when I found my box of 9mm Black Talons I held on to.




Got the daughter this S&W .22 for Christmas WW. Thought about just getting her a 10/22 but she really wants a AR so I think this will make her day.

Yeah, I was very happy to get rid of that lousy thumbhole stock. Man I hated that thing.

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #86 on: December 21, 2012, 12:02:12 AM »
Tacticool.  LOL I like that description Widewing.

These guys kinda scare me

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Offline TheMercinary60

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #87 on: December 21, 2012, 12:08:47 AM »
Nice looking PKM/MS.   :)

I had a VERY nice Polish PMK/MS (AKMS, or an AK w/ and underfolder stock for you newbs  :D ), built on a NDS receiver than had matching serial numbers.  I had it built in 2007, I even had a number of the highly coveted 30rd Polish polymer mags as well,  It was a beautiful carbine, I would fold the stock and put it on the shelf of my gun safe, that thing was compact once folded!  Anyways, I sold it and invested the funds in to a Triumph motorcycle. I got out of AK's altogether and went with AR's and Sig 556's.  :aok
well now ya tell me, here ive been looking to get another AK, wouldnt mind an SKS if you ever get sick of the one you were talking about earlier

i just think its ridicules, i was in a pawn shop yesterday and saw a nice lever action .30-30, almost traded in my ruger .22 for it even, but the guy told me he couldnt sell it because he couldn't call in, apparently they had been trying all day, said they didnt even get the "elevator music" that you normally get, it was basically just "call back later"
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Offline cattb

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #88 on: December 21, 2012, 12:09:59 AM »
So Important!!! IF the mother of the recent shooter had done this, he wouldn't not have had access to the weapons.

I was always under the impression that one could easily convert many 'semi-auto' guns to 'auto' (sometimes as simple as filing down the firing pin). Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that one can even own the parts to an automatic weapon as long as it is not assembled. Maybe the gun laws shouldn't be focused on magazine size but on making it more difficult to convert weapons to auto.

Ardy,
Not to start a arguement, but to make a point.

The guns could have been locked up. No one really knows except  the investigators. I have a metal gun safe or locker. It could be broken into if someone really wanted to. The purpose of it is to keep children out or away from the guns. Ammunition is stored in a different place. But if someone had some tools and time on thier hands, well.

I guess I have seen so many comments about this tragic event, so many assumptions.
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Offline Halo46

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #89 on: December 21, 2012, 12:13:31 AM »

If it's for fun to just take to the range and blow off a buncha rounds , what is the cost of that? How many rounds do people shoot?
 


Honestly, who are you to tell people how to spend their money? I haven't seen anyone ask why you pay for AH II every month. Doesn't that cost a bit over the years including computers, upgrades, sticks, internet, etc...? I don't think you need it, then again, maybe you do. How much have you spent or wasted on that? How about we decide how you spend your money or decide what is ethical or moral or needed for you? Hunting is in no way cheap and I hazard much more expensive than plinking a few hours away. Do you need that much meat at one time? I can't eat that much before it would be freezer burned. Oh, perhaps you are the humanitarian who is conserving wildlife herds and habitats by shooting animals or you donate the meat to feed the needy. Good for you. In my opinion the vast majority of hunters are in reality harvesters who sit and lure the animal with feed plots or use cameras to pattern them, etc... etc.... If you track and stalk your kills then I consider you a hunter, but who am I to label you? Nobody, that's who. I personally do not think it is your or anyone elses business why or how I legally spend money just as I do not care why or how you decide to hunt or play Aces High or anything else you decide is right for you. Hiding behind the thinly veiled premise of "just curious" is so passive aggressive as to be absurd and demonstrates a very cheap character in my personal opinion. Will it be okay if I buy the Expendables DVD this weekend? I don't need it and it has a lot of gratuitous violence. Do you think I will be safe to watch it without becoming mentally or criminally unstable? Please let me know soon before I make a mistake since I could just rent it or not watch it altogether. How very presumptuous of you sir. I do not think you are curious, I think you are judgmental and reproachful. You have your opinion, perhaps you should have kept it to yourself though. Just my opinion.


 
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