Author Topic: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...  (Read 7401 times)

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #345 on: December 29, 2012, 12:43:24 PM »
The term Assault riffle is tosh . you strip down an AR-15 and any semi-auto hunting riffle it's pretty much the same.  

Wide-wing Yeah ammo in the Uk is a bit pricey but I only expect to do shooting one weekend or so a month .  I might just convert it to .22  .

I think seeing how the US has such a gun culture then it would make perfect sense to teach firearm safety to every one . What if some one finds a gun on the side of the road ect.  

Do we appear to have a gun culture to other countries?
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline guncrasher

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #346 on: December 29, 2012, 01:16:02 PM »
Yet proper storage of weapons may have recently prevented 27 deaths.


Useless statement impossible to prove.  Just as silly as saying people that call off often at work save lives due to less car accidents..



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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #347 on: December 29, 2012, 01:33:08 PM »

Useless statement impossible to prove.  Just as silly as saying people that call off often at work save lives due to less car accidents.

About half of this thread is impossible to prove. Don't cherry pick.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline CAP1

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #348 on: December 29, 2012, 02:44:59 PM »

Useless statement impossible to prove.  Just as silly as saying people that call off often at work save lives due to less car accidents..



Midway

 off topic......but car asccidents aren't accidents. they're collisions caused by carelessness, negligence, inattention, or something else....but they're rarely accidents.
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Offline B3YT

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #349 on: December 29, 2012, 04:28:32 PM »
Do we appear to have a gun culture to other countries?

It does appear that way . weather it is true or not is another thing , hence my comments about the less "radical" parties to start finding a voice in the discussions.
 Midway (the real midway) please note that I said MAY not it WOULD HAVE.   your analogy is half true BUT car collisions can be reduced by things such as :
car sharing (reducing traffic numbers)
better  road layouts ,
better education
control on car quality with regular inspections (I don't mean new cars but older cars that need to pass minimum safety to be on the roads such as good tyres , correctly operating brakes , suspention ect)


Notice how such things do not restrict an individual that uses a car for enjoyment or for work purposes , these things can and do reduce road deaths in countries that do have this (as far as I am aware the USA has no federal policy for the testing the road worth of a vehicle)  .  In the same way those wanting to use firearms in a responsible way would not  find that  a balanced requirement  and  strong guidelines for ownership would not  reduce their ability to own said items .  There will always be deaths , shootings and the ilk and I'm sure that  a  system that  would enable  agencies to watch out for the safety of  owners  is a good thing.  I'm not trying to stop you from having a gun or saying you shouldn't have one .
Heck I would like a rifle for myself  and seeing how Americans think it's "difficult" to own one in the UK  I can say it's pretty easy , only it means talking to the police and getting instruction  at a rifle club . I  would then have a certificate that I have to produce when purchasing a firearm  and have to inform the police on each firearm I do buy . Is it an inconvenience ? maybe but then so are the laws to do with my car (which to be honest I'm more likely to die in )  but then will it detract  from the enjoyment I may (or may not) get from shooting ?  Not really .       
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Offline Slash27

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #350 on: December 29, 2012, 04:40:53 PM »
I didn't want to "bash" the NRA as such but  it does seem overly "zealous" in fighting a gun ban .       
:huh

Offline CAP1

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #351 on: December 29, 2012, 04:50:16 PM »
It does appear that way . weather it is true or not is another thing , hence my comments about the less "radical" parties to start finding a voice in the discussions. i would venture that you guys get a very "guided" picture of us. much the same, i'm pretty sure we get a very "guided" picture of other countries.
 Midway (the real midway) please note that I said MAY not it WOULD HAVE.if this is in reference to a weapon in a lock box.....you would be correct to say it would have. if a person was brave enough to charge into a madman empty handed, this same person would have been brave enough to do what was necessary to end the tragedy before it became a tragedy.    your analogy is half true BUT car collisions can be reduced by things such as :
car sharing (reducing traffic numbers) might or might not.
better  road layouts ,this is something i've been saying for years. sometimes it looks like a cross eyed drunk designed them.
better education definitely would help.
control on car quality with regular inspections (I don't mean new cars but older cars that need to pass minimum safety to be on the roads such as good tyres , correctly operating brakes , suspention ect) this is a big one. some states don't have safety inspections, my state being one of those. i am happy to say that we should be going back to them shortly. but even that won't make much difference though. we need to get people into the mindset of paying attention to their driving, not their phone, the hot chick on the corner, that awesome looking shelby or zl1 that just passed them going the other way.


Notice how such things do not restrict an individual that uses a car for enjoyment or for work purposes , these things can and do reduce road deaths in countries that do have this (as far as I am aware the USA has no federal policy for the testing the road worth of a vehicle)  .  In the same way those wanting to use firearms in a responsible way would not  find that  a balanced requirement  and  strong guidelines for ownership would not  reduce their ability to own said items .  There will always be deaths , shootings and the ilk and I'm sure that  a  system that  would enable  agencies to watch out for the safety of  owners  is a good thing.  I'm not trying to stop you from having a gun or saying you shouldn't have one .
Heck I would like a rifle for myself  and seeing how Americans think it's "difficult" to own one in the UK  I can say it's pretty easy , only it means talking to the police and getting instruction  at a rifle club . I  would then have a certificate that I have to produce when purchasing a firearm  and have to inform the police on each firearm I do buy . Is it an inconvenience ? maybe but then so are the laws to do with my car (which to be honest I'm more likely to die in )  but then will it detract  from the enjoyment I may (or may not) get from shooting ?  Not really .       

 sorry bout the red mess yup top.
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Offline B3YT

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #352 on: December 29, 2012, 05:11:56 PM »
Thanks CAP .  I get sort of fed up of Knee jerk reactions when people suggest that maybe some things need to be looked at in the way the USA handles firearm procedures . Canada is a very good example they have as many weapons per house hold as the USA yet gun crime is less , fatalities are less  ect. Maybe it's due to some way that they view firearms and ownership .  Instead of a right maybe more of a privilege.   

   
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Offline Plawranc

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #353 on: December 29, 2012, 06:18:24 PM »
In RP to CAP.

Yes, our opinions are guided here.

The United States does get quite a bit of bad press in most nations due to its policies. In Australia our government and our media is considerably left wing. Australia is very similar to the USA in a lot of ways. Robin Williams the comedian said it best calling Australians "British Rednecks". Which I think is an accurate statement. But our media and government are very anti gun. Have been ever since the last massacre we had in Port Arthur Tasmania.

Ironically it was a Right Wing government that instituted the ban so our nation as a whole is very "left".

But NOT turning this into a Gun Control thread. Skuzzy has spoken.

Around the world I think the USA's popularity has gone into the negative numbers. The recent Gulf War 2. The subsequent economic crisis. And the repeated events such as the Newtown shooting and Westboro Baptist church etc. Has culminated in the USA becoming the pariah.

Most of my friends and indeed my girlfriend are Americans. So the American people aren't what our media is attacking, rather its leadership. However, as stated earlier, our governments fore mentioned "left leaning" has led to a certain unnamed government official getting a lot of good press.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #354 on: December 29, 2012, 06:23:31 PM »
Thanks CAP .  I get sort of fed up of Knee jerk reactions when people suggest that maybe some things need to be looked at in the way the USA handles firearm procedures . Canada is a very good example they have as many weapons per house hold as the USA yet gun crime is less , fatalities are less  ect. Maybe it's due to some way that they view firearms and ownership .  Instead of a right maybe more of a privilege.  

    

 to me the ability to own a firearm is both a right and a privilege. it's a right guaranteed to us by our constitution. but it's also a privilege, because if you eff up......as in you go rob a gas station, and get prison time.....or beat your wife.....or anything that shows you to be incompetent to own a firearm, then you give up that right. that's why i view it as both.

 i think our crime stats may(or may not) be sqewed thanks to the poverty level in a lot of the inner cities, and due to the presence of drugs in inner cities. i'm not sure about that though.

 i would fully support training/testing in order to earn a firearms permit, much as we do for drivers license, and pilots license. it would even be worth the extra cost. i don't necessarily think it's needed, but i would still support it, as it just seems like an overall good idea.

 as much as i think we don't need any new laws, as most already have proven ineffective, i DO however feel that the owner of a weapon should in most instances be held accountable for any damage/harm caused with their weapon. there will be times when that isn't applicable, but.......if my weapon is stored properly, then it would be impossible for someone in my family to gain access to it, and go do harm. it would be overly difficult for "joe the badguy" to gain access to it. if he does, and it's not reported stolen......then the owner is responsible just as if they pulled the trigger. and there can't be any loopholes, or plea bargains. people need to know that they will be held accountable. that goes for lots of other stuff too. it truly isn't a gun problem here, as you seem to realize. it's a crime problem. we could spend another 30 pages going into why there's such a crime problem here.

 the problem with how you guys over there see this.....and with how we all get inundated with this stuff is a couple reasons. first off, the media's job is to sell their stuff. to sell their stuff, they have to take something that's bad, and make it look gruesome. they take something gruesome, and make it look ungodly horribly gruesome. i suspect your media over there does the same thing. i mean really......how many people would read about poodles pooping on the boardwalk in atlantic city? or the multi-million dollar winner at harrah's casino? heck, they even do it with the weather. right now, they've got a "winter weather advisory" till 6am tomorrow morning. WHY?? it snowed a little this morning. that turned to rain. it's going down to 29F tonight. tomorrow in the mid 30's. there is no friggin abnormal weather! loilolol. they do it so that people will watch their stupid shows.

 i best stop.....kind of rambling now.  and hopefully i didn't overstep any bounds here. if i did, it was not intentional.

 
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 06:26:31 PM by CAP1 »
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #355 on: December 29, 2012, 06:28:29 PM »
In RP to CAP.

Yes, our opinions are guided here.

The United States does get quite a bit of bad press in most nations due to its policies. In Australia our government and our media is considerably left wing. Australia is very similar to the USA in a lot of ways. Robin Williams the comedian said it best calling Australians "British Rednecks". Which I think is an accurate statement. But our media and government are very anti gun. Have been ever since the last massacre we had in Port Arthur Tasmania.

Ironically it was a Right Wing government that instituted the ban so our nation as a whole is very "left".

But NOT turning this into a Gun Control thread. Skuzzy has spoken.

Around the world I think the USA's popularity has gone into the negative numbers. The recent Gulf War 2. The subsequent economic crisis. And the repeated events such as the Newtown shooting and Westboro Baptist church etc. Has culminated in the USA becoming the pariah.

Most of my friends and indeed my girlfriend are Americans. So the American people aren't what our media is attacking, rather its leadership. However, as stated earlier, our governments fore mentioned "left leaning" has led to a certain unnamed government official getting a lot of good press.

i think the guided opinion thing goes both ways though. i don't think just austrailia or england guides their readers to dislike the usa, or to whatever opinion is convenient. i don't think they do it for that purpose even. i think they do it because it's what sells. and our press here is just as guilty of that as anyone elses press is.
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #356 on: December 29, 2012, 06:41:41 PM »
Thanks CAP .  I get sort of fed up of Knee jerk reactions when people suggest that maybe some things need to be looked at in the way the USA handles firearm procedures . Canada is a very good example they have as many weapons per house hold as the USA yet gun crime is less , fatalities are less  ect. Maybe it's due to some way that they view firearms and ownership .  Instead of a right maybe more of a privilege.   

   

it isn't the firearm but the people's attitude that needed to be changed.  look at Japan very few arms in the general public but the murder rate for the country is very low.  Switzerland is another example, high rate of gun "ownership" but very few deaths.

you see both extremes and either works well not only due to regulations but people's attitude.  the most important being people's attitude.


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Offline Widewing

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #357 on: December 29, 2012, 07:48:23 PM »
seen between £300 - £700


1950's SMLE for about £350  but a WWII Carbine was £700

Indeed, Enfields are greatly over-priced in Britain. You can find a nice shooting No.4 Mk.I here for the equivalent of £250.

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Offline Widewing

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #358 on: December 29, 2012, 07:50:23 PM »
it isn't the firearm but the people's attitude that needed to be changed.  look at Japan very few arms in the general public but the murder rate for the country is very low.  Switzerland is another example, high rate of gun "ownership" but very few deaths.

you see both extremes and either works well not only due to regulations but people's attitude.  the most important being people's attitude.


midway

I agree... Our culture is broken. We must change how we view violence and not glorify it to the extent that the entertainment industry does now.
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Offline B3YT

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #359 on: December 29, 2012, 08:07:20 PM »
Midway - yup thats what I was trying to say Just not very well .  It's not so much the tools that need restricting but the users .   I can't even watch some shows about Lumber jacks that show them doing stupid things as reality  shows about "real lumber jacks"  , I want to string them up for being idiots with a tool that can kill a man in half a second (had a friend who was saved by his special clothing even though he was the safest saw user I had ever known ) .   

It's a case of monkey see monkey do .  I don't think you tube and other online media help in showing how to use dangerous tools properly what ever they are . PLease tell me if i'm wrong but there is a certain macho image in having the biggest meanest gun  in some cultures ; i know there is in some parts of the UK  (morons who think that holding a gun  to the side is bad bellybutton ect)  .

 I used to go to a pub where we think one of the old guys there is in either the SAS or SBS as he would "disappear" for a few months when something would kick off in the world ; come back with new scars and couldn't say where he'd been , you know just away..........yet I've seen him drop guys twice his size with out moving off his stool  just because they were harassing this girl . They were out cold just with a flick of his wrist . We knew he was "ex - military" he would show us how to disarm people and what to do if you get a gun pulled on you .  He had some interesting things to say .  Nice guy  very quiet .
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