Author Topic: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!  (Read 9667 times)

Offline Debrody

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #75 on: January 05, 2013, 04:09:58 AM »
Of course VVS massively outnumbered FiAF during both wars. But per engagement basis and looking at the exchange ratios, the above is complete and utter nonsense.
Hey, dont be this agressive. Noone, again, noone have ever questioned the honour of your country.      (except Koski but thats an other story)
Jug only stated that the training, experience and maybe the equipment of the finnish troops and commanders were as utterly superior to the Red Army in '39 that they could defeat them in spite of the amazing difference between the numbers. Dont forget that Stalin just executed the whole military leadership in '37-'38. In '44, the Red Army grew even bigger, got modern equipment, their commanders had a load of combat experience, therefor they mauled the finnish army - just like the persians mauled Leonidas.

So chill, noone is trying to offend you or your nation, there is no need to make friends that quickly.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #76 on: January 05, 2013, 04:59:09 AM »
It's easy to understand someone might get ticked off when your country fought at many times 10:1 odds and managed to stop the attackers.

Put it 1:1 and then let's see who'se mauling who.
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #77 on: January 05, 2013, 05:31:36 AM »
Hey, dont be this agressive.

I'm not being "aggressive". I'm just telling how it is.

As a side note: Considering your history on this BBS, "dont be this aggressive" coming from you is hilariously ironic to say the least. :lol


Noone, again, noone have ever questioned the honour of your country.

Hmm...where did I claim that someone did?


...therefor they mauled the finnish army - just like the persians mauled Leonidas.

Whatever "mauling" Soviets did, Finns/Germans (summer of '44) "mauled" more as per definition of the word:

tr.v. mauled also malled, maul·ing also mall·ing, mauls also malls
1.  To injure by or as if by beating: The boxer mauled the other fighter. The critics mauled the novelist's first effort. See Synonyms at batter1.
2.  To handle roughly: The package was mauled by the careless messenger.
3.  To split (wood) with a maul and wedge.


The Soviet losses were far greater. And therefore I said he was talking utter nonsense, because he was.


So chill, noone is trying to offend you or your nation, there is no need to make friends that quickly.

I wasn't offended in anyway. I simply meant that he didn't have the faintest clue what he was talking about because that was pretty clear based on his post. I was calling duck a duck, that simple.
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Offline Debrody

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #78 on: January 05, 2013, 07:15:38 AM »
<sigh>
<slowly moving away>
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Offline titanic3

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #79 on: January 05, 2013, 07:43:05 AM »
There's the Karnak/Lusche way to explain stuff, then there's the AckAck/Wmaker way. Try not to be the latter folks.  :old: :aok

  the game is concentrated on combat, not on shaking the screen.

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Offline Charge

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #80 on: January 06, 2013, 12:55:47 PM »
"Very interesting. Perhaps a little dihedral made it a bit more stable?"

Brewster already has dihedral and my point was that as the wings were bent the dihedral was actually increasing towards the tip of the wing. This is pretty much the same effect the sailplanes experience due to flexible wings. The "winglet" in the wingtip is an application of vortex control at wing tip but I'm not sure if the variable dihedral gains benefit from that. Maybe the stabilizing effect comes from front of the wing, not back. By this I mean that the pressure distribution at leading edge may be different, maybe it resembles even that of an elliptic wing.

http://www.sailplanedirectory.com/data/planes/images/99_4_B.jpg

***

"A few years later the more experienced Russians mauled the Finns!"

Well that claim does have some factual basis. In short: Mannerheim was not convinced that Germany could defeat USSR so he chose a careful political path and did not threaten Leningrad despite continuous German requests, this caused the lines to freeze at the old border which Finland hoped to maintain after peace negotiations. This policy, along with a big part of the troops being sent home, caused a decline in morale and readiness. The massed Russian onslaught later on generally did come as a surprise and it managed to penetrate several sloppily fortified defense lines and massive artillery, air support and tank concentrations helped a lot, along with a general increase in experience and cohesion of their military tactics and organization that Stalin had so severely wounded earlier. One reason for Russian attack for losing momentum was their rapid advance which stretched their support lines and also advancing to areas which were easier to defend for Finns. Also the Finnish forces became more concentrated near the new border along with reinforcements from occupied far reaches of Karelia being pulled back. If there was not the race for Berlin at hand the Russians would have probably tried to invaded Finland. However, there was already political pressure from western powers for USSR not to invade Finland as it had already done to Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania so they chose to negotiate a peace (if you can call dictating the rigid terms "negotiating"). After all USSR could invade Finland later after the Germany was dealt with, but his was hampered by political climate post 1945 and Finland proved to be more useful political than military buffer between east and west, but the threat was still there for a couple of decades after the war.

There's irony that the heroic actions of German Gefectsverband Kuhlmey to stop the Russian onslaught in 1944 gave Finland a chance to negotiate for peace, something Germany absolutely did not want!

Well this is again an interesting BW thread. Anxiously waiting for the next one.  :D

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Offline Megalodon

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #81 on: January 06, 2013, 01:29:17 PM »
In some cases they got credited more kills after Soviet records opened.

Please, point me in the direction of this information

Where B-239 claims are matched against soviet loss records?
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #82 on: January 06, 2013, 01:49:40 PM »
Well that claim does have some factual basis.

I have hard time seeing it considering the definition of the word and because the discussion was about FiAF/Brewster's performance against VVS.


-------

All the FiAF fighters with the exception of 109G were starting to have more difficult time with the newer Soviet types, there's no doubt about that. However, "mauled" they were not, not even close.

Anyway, Juggler's motive is pretty clear every time he brings up Brewster and that is to stir sh*t. It is very evident to anyone who does a quick BBS-search.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 01:59:59 PM by Wmaker »
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #83 on: January 06, 2013, 01:55:14 PM »
Brewster should have a lower ENY.....just saying

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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #84 on: January 06, 2013, 04:39:54 PM »
Brewster should have a lower ENY.....just saying

#EZMode

Just because it's a relatively easy plane to fly doesn't justify a lower ENY.  Almost every plane is superior to it in almost all categories, save for turn.  Frankly, if you get killed by a Brewster, it's pretty much your own fault.  I guess that's why so many cry about it, they don't like to face the fact they messed up and it caused them to get shot down.

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Offline morfiend

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #85 on: January 06, 2013, 04:42:30 PM »
Just because it's a relatively easy plane to fly doesn't justify a lower ENY.  Almost every plane is superior to it in almost all categories, save for turn.  Frankly, if you get killed by a Brewster, it's pretty much your own fault.  I guess that's why so many cry about it, they don't like to face the fact they messed up and it caused them to get shot down.

ack-ack


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Offline JunkyII

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #86 on: January 06, 2013, 08:48:23 PM »
Just because it's a relatively easy plane to fly doesn't justify a lower ENY.  Almost every plane is superior to it in almost all categories, save for turn.  Frankly, if you get killed by a Brewster, it's pretty much your own fault.  I guess that's why so many cry about it, they don't like to face the fact they messed up and it caused them to get shot down.

ack-ack
It's a scavenger's plane....some incidents yes pilots fault for letting it happen. Some times it's the dweebish flying style which hurri pilots used to use a lot...the turn HO rinse repeat, except Brews can change direction faster.

Why not? Why can't it be judged by the players that fly them? I think that in the MA some pilots fly it as a crutch...I got challenged one day to up it and not die...landed 6 quite easy 1v1s over Tank Town ozkansas. What's the same eny....LA5? I couldn't land 6 that easily. Make it 15 ENY...nobody will stop flying it but they wont get as much of a reward for kills in it.....

Wish we could make polls...

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Offline GScholz

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #87 on: January 07, 2013, 06:30:45 AM »
If I understand Hitech correctly, ENY is designed to limit/encourage usage, nothing more. Is there a disproportionate usage of the Brewster?
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #88 on: January 07, 2013, 06:59:11 AM »
It's a scavenger's plane....some incidents yes pilots fault for letting it happen. Some times it's the dweebish flying style which hurri pilots used to use a lot...the turn HO rinse repeat, except Brews can change direction faster.

Why not? Why can't it be judged by the players that fly them? I think that in the MA some pilots fly it as a crutch...I got challenged one day to up it and not die...landed 6 quite easy 1v1s over Tank Town ozkansas. What's the same eny....LA5? I couldn't land 6 that easily. Make it 15 ENY...nobody will stop flying it but they wont get as much of a reward for kills in it.....

Wish we could make polls...

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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: HTC Overmodeled the Brewster!
« Reply #89 on: January 07, 2013, 08:22:33 AM »
If I understand Hitech correctly, ENY is designed to limit/encourage usage, nothing more. Is there a disproportionate usage of the Brewster?

I'm not sure about that. I think there is a direct correlation between an aircraft's ability and its ENY value.  There are some aircraft that have been neglected per say, such as the Spit 14. That bird needs an update for the ENY value does not match its ability, same goes for the perk price.
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