P51 service ceiling

[uptown]

Every where I look the service ceiling for the P51-D is listed @ 41,900 . Why is it that in this game the plane flattens out and become pretty useless at 30K?  


The Lancs, B24s and 17s are flying well and steady at over 30K when the ceiling chart in the game clipboard doesn't even show them being able to climb to 30K. Something isn't right about these climb rates listed in the game.

[Lusche]

The Lancs, B24s and 17s are flying well and steady at over 30K when the ceiling chart in the game clipboard doesn't even show them being able to climb to 30K.

Did you try to get a loaded Lancaster to 30k lately?

[Wiley]

Isn't service ceiling a pretty narrow definition though, something about it being the max alt that it's able to maintain a certain climb rate without stalling out?

What I recall reading was it doesn't say anything about planes actually being able to do anything at their service ceiling alt.

Wiley

[Lusche]

Not any Lancs yet but have been trying to hunt 17s and 24s. But when they're at 30K the 51 is useless. That's when I started checking into the service ceiling of the 51D. It appears to me that the service ceiling for the 51D is around 30K in the game and not the 41900K listed from outside sources.

Maybe there's a difference between official service ceiling and (perceived) practical usabaility at altitude? They don't necessarily have to match exactly. And keep in midn that bomebrs do fly faster here than in RL at any altitude.
That being said, the 51D is far from useless against enemy bombers at 30k. I have killed quite a number of bombers at that alt (and even more, eneyy interceptors, because traditionally I have used the 51D more for hi alt escorts than buff hunts.).
There are, of course, fighters better suited to combat at 30k and beyond, like the 47M or the Ta 152H, both of which had a higher service altitude than the pony in reallife.



Oh, and on the Lanc, the days of Lancasters doing 30k bomber runs with full bombload on a regular base are long gone since HTC did some adjustments.

[Chalenge]

I have killed Lancs, B29s, B24s, B17s all above 30k with the 51D. That does not mean it is the best at it, but there you go.

def. Service Ceiling - altitude at which an aircraft makes only 150ft/min. climb.

[BaldEagl]

Service ceiling
It is the density altitude at which flying in a clean configuration, at the best rate of climb airspeed for that altitude and with all engines operating and producing maximum continuous power, will produce a 100 feet per minute climb.

Absolute ceiling
The highest altitude an aeroplane can sustain level flight, which means the altitude at which the thrust of the engines at full power is equal to the total drag at minimum drag speed.

Combat ceiling
It is the highest altitude at which an aircraft is expected to have a 500 feet per minute climb

[Chalenge]

Isn't service ceiling a pretty narrow definition though, something about it being the max alt that it's able to maintain a certain climb rate without stalling out?

What I recall reading was it doesn't say anything about planes actually being able to do anything at their service ceiling alt.

Wiley

Pretty much you got it right.  Except there is a big difference between the methods of flying at high altitude. If you are a crank-and-banker you will not be able to fly that way at high altitude.

The altitude Uptown listed for the P-51 is actually absolute ceiling, which is defined as the maximum altitude at which an aircraft can maintain level flight. At that point increasing the angle-of-attack will cause a stall, because the maximum thrust available is equal to the minimum thrust required to maintain level flight.

There is much more to it than definitions though. Anyone that has ever been to levels above 300 will know that any time you try to turn you lose altitude more than you do at low altitude. Makes sense because of the thinner air, right? So, when you turn you want to use more rudder and less aileron. Two aircraft, the Spit 14, and Ta152 are exceptional at this. You bank to the point at which the inboard wing is parallel to the ground, and you use the rudder to turn.

99.9% of the people that read this will be reading it for the first time.

[JimmyD3]

Pretty much you got it right.  Except there is a big difference between the methods of flying at high altitude. If you are a crank-and-banker you will not be able to fly that way at high altitude.

The altitude Uptown listed for the P-51 is actually absolute ceiling, which is defined as the maximum altitude at which an aircraft can maintain level flight. At that point increasing the angle-of-attack will cause a stall, because the maximum thrust available is equal to the minimum thrust required to maintain level flight.

There is much more to it than definitions though. Anyone that has ever been to levels above 300 will know that any time you try to turn you lose altitude more than you do at low altitude. Makes sense because of the thinner air, right? So, when you turn you want to use more rudder and less aileron. Two aircraft, the Spit 14, and Ta152 are exceptional at this. You bank to the point at which the inboard wing is parallel to the ground, and you use the rudder to turn.

99.9% of the people that read this will be reading it for the first time.

Your right there, first I'd heard about it, although it makes sense when you think it through. Thanks for the education Chalenge, that should help my Buff killing LOL. 

[colmbo]

Your right there, first I'd heard about it, although it makes sense when you think it through. Thanks for the education Chalenge, that should help my Buff killing LOL. 

Makes little sense to me.  You're already lacking power, why skid the airplane and create drag?  I'd wager you'll lose as much altitude skidding the turn as you would with a coordinated banked turn.

[Chalenge]

I thought the same thing, colmbo, until I started flying that high. I think you should test it.

[uptown]

I have killed Lancs, B29s, B24s, B17s all above 30k with the 51D. That does not mean it is the best at it, but there you go.

def. Service Ceiling - altitude at which an aircraft makes only 150ft/min. climb.

That makes sense. I went level at around 32K I guess and was getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 or 500ft/min. climb rate. That's when I figured that there's no way I'm going to get another 8 or 9 k out of it.

[Wiley]

Every where I look the service ceiling for the P51-D is listed @ 41,900 . Why is it that in this game the plane flattens out and become pretty useless at 30K?  

One other thing I think is worth a mention.  If you're not used to fighting at alt, most planes become 'pretty useless' at 30k.

At alt, I find the thing to do is keep your E up, use gentle turns to set up your proper angles for shots.  If you turn too hard, you bleed E much much faster than at low alt, and most planes' acceleration is minimal.

It's a different kind of fighting altogether.

Wiley.

[Chalenge]

The rules are not much different. The closer you get to absolute ceiling the closer you approach stall, so less aileron and more rudder. Near a stall avoid aileron. That's the same. It takes less room to compress, so you don't dive as far and you make less nose movements overall. Crank-and-bank works, but it takes less crank and less bank. Most of the time if you are escort at that kind of alt you only need to threaten opposing fighters and once they start down they don't come back up.

[Tupac]

That makes sense. I went level at around 32K I guess and was getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 or 500ft/min. climb rate. That's when I figured that there's no way I'm going to get another 8 or 9 k out of it.

In little airplanes like the ones I fly, service ceiling is where you can no longer maintain a 200fpm climb.

[colmbo]

In little airplanes like the ones I fly, service ceiling is where you can no longer maintain a 200fpm climb.

100fpm for piston engine single, 500fpm for jets.