Author Topic: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!  (Read 25668 times)

Offline Karnak

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #390 on: October 23, 2013, 09:32:12 AM »
I myself would like to see an Axis vs. Allied arena in the MA style.

I know it isn't going to work in game, but the realism would increase at least for me.

I know I'm one of a few that would appreciate that.  Two counties only, point system adjusted etc.

I don't see as well as I used to. I need an Icon to help with targeting.

I know this is not possible, but would increase immersion for me.

Shooting down B17s and spitfires in a Jug is not my cup of tea.

Posted a thread for this in the Wishlist forum:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,355380.0.html


Great idea.   :aok

Only problem is 90% of the pilots would be flying on the same side in spits and ponies.  :frown:
90% don't fly Spits and Ponies now, so I doubt that would be true, but it would favor the Allies quite a bit.  I'd fly Axis in such an arena, mostly Japanese.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 09:33:46 AM by Karnak »
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Offline Fulcrum

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #391 on: October 23, 2013, 09:36:47 AM »
90% don't fly Spits and Ponies now, so I doubt that would be true, but it would favor the Allies quite a bit.  I'd fly Axis in such an arena, mostly Japanese.

I didn't mean the figure to be taken litterally...more to suggest the Allies would be favored. 

I would fly Axis and Japanese as well.  :aok
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Offline Lusche

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #392 on: October 23, 2013, 09:44:25 AM »
90% don't fly Spits and Ponies now, so I doubt that would be true, but it would favor the Allies quite a bit.  I'd fly Axis in such an arena, mostly Japanese.


This years fighter usage numbers:  Axis 35% Allied 65%
bomber usage numbers: Axis 15% Allies 85%
GV usage numbers: Axis 57% Allies 43%
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Offline Karnak

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #393 on: October 23, 2013, 12:21:45 PM »

This years fighter usage numbers:  Axis 35% Allied 65%
bomber usage numbers: Axis 15% Allies 85%
GV usage numbers: Axis 57% Allies 43%
Yup.  That is why, despite being an RAF buff, I'd fly Japanese stuff in such a setting.  Also why I advocated the H8K2, He177A-5, B7A2 and M26 be added in the wishlist post.
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Offline Hajo

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #394 on: October 23, 2013, 03:02:46 PM »
I know our squad would fly the lowest numbered side.  Axis or Allied makes no difference to us.

It's the fight that counts after all.  I like to win of course, but I've noticed in my flight sim

career, fighting uphill is a great teacher. There are many things that can be done by the COs' of squads etc.

COs' could meet before a new tour and sides can be balanced.  I'm in for that.

Really...with a little work and input from those who would be interested in a MA style A vs. A

the sky is actually the limit.  It would take participation not only in the arena but between COs.

You'll find the guys in TFC don't care about the latest greatest, fastest biggest gunz.

I'm sure there are more then just a few squads and players who feel the same way.

Sorry.....didn't mean to hijack the thread.
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Offline Hajo

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #395 on: October 23, 2013, 03:05:20 PM »

This years fighter usage numbers:  Axis 35% Allied 65%
bomber usage numbers: Axis 15% Allies 85%
GV usage numbers: Axis 57% Allies 43%

That's in the MA, and it figures.  This proposed arena hopefully will differ.

May even keep the first person shooters in the MA, matter of fact I'm almost sure of it.

Plane sets seem to have an influence on that. Also flying Axis or Allied in these events
really isn't a big deal to most of the participants.

I'm hoping this will attract FSO and Scenario participants to an arena which is similar to those events.

Most of us who only participate in FSO and Scenarios hardly, if ever show up in the MA.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 03:12:16 PM by Hajo »
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Offline Lusche

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #396 on: October 23, 2013, 03:18:16 PM »
That's in the MA, and it figures.  This proposed arena hopefully will differ.

There are chances it could be even worse, because players would be 'forced' to make a choice - all Axis or all Allies. Bombers for example: A huge part of the meagre 15% usage is made up by player flying usually Allied bombers and only occasionally an Axis bomber. The would be a god chance most of them would then shift to the Allied side.

There would be a lot of tweaks necessary, from gameplay changes to a heap of added planes to some very serious ENY/perk restrictions to create something resembling our sandbox open MA in AvA version
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Offline Lusche

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #397 on: October 23, 2013, 03:22:39 PM »
Most of us who only participate in FSO and Scenarios hardly, if ever show up in the MA.

About two or three years ago I made a quick analysis showing that most SEA & FSO participants were quite active in the MA. I think I will take a deeper look into it in the next few days.
On the other hand, Scenarios (the biggest events in AH) generally drew only an attendance 3-8% of all MA pilots in a given tour.

This is not meant as a stetement for or against an additional AvAMA  :old:
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Offline Hajo

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #398 on: October 23, 2013, 03:35:02 PM »
About two or three years ago I made a quick analysis showing that most SEA & FSO participants were quite active in the MA. I think I will take a deeper look into it in the next few days.
On the other hand, Scenarios (the biggest events in AH) generally drew only an attendance 3-8% of all MA pilots in a given tour.

This is not meant as a stetement for or against an additional AvAMA  :old:

Your input is appreciated by me Snailman.  I'm depending on those who truly wish to be involved set a standard (not low)

on side balancing.  Maps would dictate the planes available for both sides etc.  Will take work.  The guys in the AvA now

have a handful, just trying to get more involved in a good idea that will require more input from the players then it does

when one enters the MA.  This will require good people who want the historic matchup and the fight that ensues.

More then likely a thought more then reality.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 03:39:30 PM by Hajo »
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Offline jag88

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #399 on: October 23, 2013, 04:57:44 PM »

To be honest though, I would probably have supported your wish if it wasn't for the fact that you have come across as such a tool. You clearly have some issues and have been irrational to anyone making a response. Next time you come up with a good wish, leave the attitude at the door and people might support it.

So, you agree with the idea but out of spite you wont support it?  And you dare to call me a tool? Oh the irony...

Then you freely admit that anything you deem productive in this thread is a waste of your and everyone else's time? Pity.
I was actually hoping you'd transition from petulance to productive. By the way, all sources I've seen on the 177 appear to
indicate that, historically, it never managed to make it to impressive status. The Do.217 would be a nice addition. But I'm still
not seeing a crisis over the 111 being modeled first. My regrets that it annoys you so.

*Sigh*

This is why I asked before if it was clear enough, you are a bit lost.  The point was to add a para version of the He-111, the rest was chat.

The Luftwaffe had no significant sustained bombing efforts after 1942 and the production numbers of its later bombers are consequently low.

The Russian and even the Maltese would likely disagree.  Production was low because the Do-217 and He-111 were on low rate production waiting to be replaced by the He-177, which failed to materialize in time.  Same for the 188, it was a stop gap until the failed Ju-288 was introduced, so it and the vainilla Ju-88 remained on production... for the lowly figure of 10.000 units, add fighter and other variants and you get 15.000.

Quote
The Do217, Ju188 and He177 are MA fodder for players who won't fly anything other than German aircraft.  The Luftwaffe situation is not comparable to the USAAF or RAF being without the B-17/B-24 and Lancaster.  See the difference?

You missed the point.

Quote
Manchester never worked and was rapidly withdrawn from service with the RAF suggesting that Avro build Halifaxes instead.
As noted above a mid war bomber for the Germans is really just MA fodder for the subset of players who refuse to fly anything that isn't German.  That doesn't mean it shouldn't be added, but it does significantly reduce its priority.

Just, no.


the ju-88 could have been produced in twice the numbers as the bf-109 and that still would not have made it as much of an iconic war time image as the he-111, p-40, b-17, bf-109, a6m zero, p-51 or the spitfire.

even movie studios from the 60s were more aware of what iconic was...
(Image removed from quote.)


Hehe, man you are a blast!  Now you are bringing Hollywood and its movies a "proof"?  Lol!  Could you be any sillier?  And Im sure the election of the He-111 had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the fact the He-111 family was still alive back then in Spain as the CASA 2.111.  I bet you didnt even find anything odd with the "Bf-109s"!  :aok

But this actually reinforces my point, to think that the He-111 is THE iconic bomber of the LW you clearly need to have a "movie knowledge" of WW2 and avoid books like the plague!

Here, my contribution to your knowledge of WW2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIg_rCMe5Ik

"Awesome" movie...
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 05:11:46 PM by jag88 »
The 88 in my name has nothing to do with nazis, skinheads or any other type of half-wit, nor with the "ideas" they support.

Offline gyrene81

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #400 on: October 23, 2013, 05:13:13 PM »
Hehe, man you are a blast!  Now you are bringing Hollywood and its movies a "proof"?  Lol!  Whats next Pearl Harbour?  Could you be any sillier?
actually no, you top the cake on silly...and that can be proven by the crap you have posted in this discussion.



The Russian and even the Maltese would likely disagree.  Production was low because the Do-217 and He-111 were on low rate production waiting to be replaced by the He-177, which failed to materialize in time.  Same for the 188, it was a stop gap until the failed Ju-288 was introduced, so it and the vainilla Ju-88 remained on production... for the lowly figure of 10.000 units, add fighter and other variants and you get 15.000.
you need to stop using wikipedia as your source. the why and wherefore of luftwaffe bomber development and production are all well documented and "waiting for new versions" was not in the equation.
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Offline Motherland

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #401 on: October 23, 2013, 10:28:33 PM »
Icon n. a person or thing regarded as a symbol of a belief, nation, community, or cultural movement

The Battle of Britain was the most culturally significant strategic bombing campaign in the West undertaken by the Luftwaffe during the Second World War. Barbarossa in the East.
The He 111 played a significant role in both and its easily recognizable, graceful shape makes it iconic of both campaigns (especially the BoB) and as either campaign is largely iconic the cultural perception of German strategic bombing anywhere in the world, the He 111 can certainly be considered 'an' or even 'the' iconic bomber of the Luftwaffe.

Was it the most relevant in a material sense? Not really. But that doesn't have anything to do with iconography. Trying to prove that it wasn't doesn't do anything but make you look like a pedant.

Offline Molsman

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #402 on: October 23, 2013, 10:31:03 PM »
hey i still fly my 111 in the MA it is a great perk farmer  :devil and fun to fly
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Offline Karnak

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #403 on: October 23, 2013, 11:00:24 PM »
Icon n. a person or thing regarded as a symbol of a belief, nation, community, or cultural movement

The Battle of Britain was the most culturally significant strategic bombing campaign in the West undertaken by the Luftwaffe during the Second World War. Barbarossa in the East.
The He 111 played a significant role in both and its easily recognizable, graceful shape makes it iconic of both campaigns (especially the BoB) and as either campaign is largely iconic the cultural perception of German strategic bombing anywhere in the world, the He 111 can certainly be considered 'an' or even 'the' iconic bomber of the Luftwaffe.

Was it the most relevant in a material sense? Not really. But that doesn't have anything to do with iconography. Trying to prove that it wasn't doesn't do anything but make you look like a pedant.
Example:  Spitfire Mk I was the iconic British fighter of the Battle of Britain.  Hurricane Mk I was actually the workhorse fighter that got the job done, 2/3rds of RAF fighter command was Hurricanes and 66-75% of RAF kills were by the Hurricane, yet it is the Spitfire that is the icon.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!
« Reply #404 on: October 23, 2013, 11:37:01 PM »
Example:  Spitfire Mk I was the iconic British fighter of the Battle of Britain.  Hurricane Mk I was actually the workhorse fighter that got the job done, 2/3rds of RAF fighter command was Hurricanes and 66-75% of RAF kills were by the Hurricane, yet it is the Spitfire that is the icon.

Of course the Hurricane looking like it got its face run over by a fully loaded brewery wagon might have something to do with that.

I mean the Spitfire actually LOOKS like a fighter.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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