realistic gunnery

[easymo]

 I see this phrase all the time, on the various boards. They usually mean, lame bellybutton guns. And they knock AH, because the guns work. I wonder how HTC DID come up with the numbers? I would like some ammo     for these discussions.

 The chog gets a lot of whining. I don't fly it, but the effects of 4 20mm ripping through an aluminum airframe, would be self evident, it seems.

Also, I've been playing for years, and have downed thousands of planes. (something RL pilots would never have a chance to do.) Of course, I can hit something past 300 yards. Though I seldom try. In spite of this there are a lot of "he killed me at 700 yards" whines.

 I think AH is very realistic. But wonder what gunnery setting, were, based on.


[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 03-06-2001).]

[flakbait]

They probably got their data from tests conducted during or after the war. I know recoil is based off known info for a given weapon, and those recoil effects are very well modeled. I love the gunnery here too; I don't have to blow 4,000 rounds of .30 cal to kill someone. Although that much racket from all the ping sounds will give you a headache.  


If you get REALLY bored you can figure your own recoil here:
 www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/guns/recoil.htm
 www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/guns/recoil1.htm

-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta 6's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"During the Battle of Britain the question 'fighter or fighter-bomber?'
had been decided once and for all: The fighter can only be used as a bomb carrier
with lasting effect when sufficient air superiority has been won." Adolph Galland
 

[Spatula]

I had my raditor knocked out at d1.4 by a chog yesterday spraying hispano everywhere.
thats 1,400 yards - realistic??? might need to re-evaluate that claim.
I realise it was probably 1.0 or 1.1 on his FE - but thats still rediculous.

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by Spatula:
I had my raditor knocked out at d1.4 by a chog yesterday spraying hispano everywhere.
thats 1,400 yards - realistic??? might need to re-evaluate that claim.
I realise it was probably 1.0 or 1.1 on his FE - but thats still rediculous.

Spat, I missed the link to the film, where is it?

[Jigster]

We need a record button that is based on the same algorithm used for the 88mm/127mm flak  

That way it starts recording before the weirdness happens.

Btw Rip, taking nothing but ballistics into account, hitting the radiator or ducting past, say, 800 yards would have to be a pretty interesting shot -- or the person who gets hit would have to be inverted.

 

- Bess
 

[Vulcan]

Rip babey... I got pinged d1.2 the other night, took out my radiator and wounded me. Subsequently I was pinged at d1.4 as well.

The dirty rotten part of it was that it was done by a Yak with Mgs only! Twas RRAF, you can ask him bout it, plus I got film, if I get my lazy arse sorted I'll post it.

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Spat, I missed the link to the film, where is it?

[Eagler]

net lag figures into it somewhere.
I'd like to see anything outside of 600d become extremely inaccurate. Real or not, it'd make you fly and fight instead of spray and pray..

Eagler

[Tac]

I find it interesting that when we get killed at d700+ by singlepingkillturbohispano and wonder if this happened in RL, the bookworms here love to say "ooh but looky here, hispano range is XXX (above 1.0), my source is yadadada written by dr.xcuse".

And yet what is not realized is that in RL pilots did NOT have laser rangefinding icons (heck, as far as I know not even the F-22 has such accurate ranging) and had to get in close, between 500 and 100 yds before they started shooting. Only BUFFS were common victims of long range cannon shots due to their obvious size and need to use cannon's longer range vs the buffs defensive armament.

But to say that 109's and Fw190's took d500+ shots at p51's/Yaks, that F4U's/P-40/P-38's took d700+ shots at Zekes as a rule is ludicrious. In AH it is seems to be a rule, especially with Hispano-bristling planes... the spits/chog and the n1k (n1k no hispano but damn close to it).

I would LOVE to see the laser rangers turned OFF for one week and see just how many long range kills you will get, heck in H2H when flying chog in iconless fights you VERY rarely see such long range shots, ive yet to see a d500+ shot... why? after d500 the con doesnt look much different if its at d500 or d800.. and d1.0+ could be at d1.6 and you still wouldnt notice a significant change in the AC's size.

Guns *may* be historically correct, but that gameplay BS billboard icon+laseranger turn AH into arcade. Its like Fighter Ace, but with harder FM.

[funked]

Hmmm what do Spatula and Vulcan have in common?  Massive, other side of the the planet, net lag.

[Swoop]

Forget range for a minute (of course it's possible to get hits at extremely long range, I used to take the tail off 109s at 3,500ft back when I used to fly EAW online).

Think about the damage modeling.

Is it accurate?  Personally I dont think so.

Someone explain to me how a panzer machine gun takes my wing off.  Someone explain why a plane will explode with 1 ping, surely bits fly off but there's still a plane there.  Explain why I can pump 10 AP shells into an Osty and watch as he calmly .EF's.  Explain why it takes 4(!) HE shells to take out a fuel storage thingy.  And 30 for a hanger is plain ridiculous.

Yeah ok, the Hispano......it's a 20mm cannon that can do serious damage.  But how come 1 ping can cause death whereas 500 .303 rounds do bugger all?

This is the reason long range shots seem to be so effective.....it's not that long range shooting is too easy, it's that it only takes 1 hit.

 
 

[Weave]

Having your radiator taken out from 1.4, or 1.0 might be somewhat unbelievable if thats what someone intended to do.

Should any projectile just disappear after 400yds?

My dad once told me that when planes were fighting over them, that folks on the ground would take cover as rounds would be striking all over the place. Anyone who stood around watching the show was an idiot.

Regarding fleet flak, the only problem I have with it is the distance at which it opens up on you, and then stops when you drop below 3k. As to its accuracy, it seems to depend on if it hit me the last time I flew through it or not.

Weave

[Jekyll]

So Ripsnort, I take it you believe Spat is lying?

Just to clarify, is it YOUR opinion that AH gunnery is a realistic simulation of the way it was in WW2?

If not, then why not?

[Graywolf]

 

Originally posted by Spatula:
I had my raditor knocked out at d1.4 by a chog yesterday spraying hispano everywhere.
thats 1,400 yards - realistic??? might need to re-evaluate that claim.
I realise it was probably 1.0 or 1.1 on his FE - but thats still rediculous.

What that a hit from an 20mm cannon shell caused damage? Or that some of his (as you said) sprayed, ie, shotgun effect, rounds hit you at long range?

If you are in a cone of fire of someone who is spraying around there is a probability of n, where n>0 that you will be hit by something. This is equally true in real life as in Aces High.

These types of things will and do happen (and I'm sure did in real life too) they just shouldn't happen that often.

Now if you'd had a wing chewed off by a 1/2 second burst from that range it might be a a different story, although again probably not something that is *impossible* just extremely (extremely, extremely) improbable.

On the flip side people fly right through my gun stream at 300yds without a scratch. It's that probability thing again.

Sort of the same way the wing sometimes falls off my Yak when the guy behind me sneezes. Other times it absorbs 8-10 solid cannon hits without more than my pride taking damage =)

The latter case is, alas, rather rare =(




------------------
Graywolfe <tim@flibble.org>

[Graywolf]

 

Originally posted by Jigster:

Btw Rip, taking nothing but ballistics into account, hitting the radiator or ducting past, say, 800 yards would have to be a pretty interesting shot -- or the person who gets hit would have to be inverted.

 


 

Or the damage model is starting to look a little old compared to the the rest of the code? =)

Not a whine, just an observation =)




------------------
Graywolfe <tim@flibble.org>

[Westy]

 Man, talk about a beaten-to-death horse. Ain't nothing much holding the bones on this carcass.

 

 This is the 109-G10 all tricked out. The "Nath" model it's called. I'm still looking for the F4U-1C shot "Vicious" had  

 -Westy

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-06-2001).]