Author Topic: Oxygen  (Read 3361 times)

Offline Karnak

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Re: Oxygen
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2013, 09:38:36 AM »
some hodrods of ww2 required oxygen to be used with engine on, because of poisonous gases leaking into cockpit
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Offline Zacherof

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Re: Oxygen
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2013, 11:37:02 AM »
Very good idea, this should have been around in AH from day one. Ht added wind to make it harder to bomb, then should have 02 in fighters (and bombers) so alt monkeys have something to worry about. Burn rate of 2 just like fuel


Dint bring asteonuats inti this! Best fights start at 30k and go to the deck.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Oxygen
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2013, 11:40:39 AM »


Dint bring asteonuats inti this! Best fights start at 30k and go to the deck.

And go to the deck? You diving after or away? Lack of energy management. Why not just start on the deck, in that case. You'll get more fights more often.

Offline Zacherof

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Re: Oxygen
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2013, 12:21:56 PM »
And go to the deck? You diving after or away? Lack of energy management. Why not just start on the deck, in that case. You'll get more fights more often.

I'm talking the rare fights were no one can on the otherones 6.
I havenp problem tho in an extended chase tho.
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Offline danny76

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Re: Oxygen
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2013, 01:29:11 PM »
Tiff especially. And are they like hotrods?
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Offline JimmyD3

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Re: Oxygen
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2013, 05:16:44 PM »
+1
 It would be great for the 35K bombers to have something that could force them to drop altitude, and it would also apply to fighters. :banana:
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Oxygen
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2013, 05:18:41 PM »
+1
 It would be great for the 35K bombers to have something that could force them to drop altitude


Cockpit hits and fuel fires do work marvels on them, they don't keep alt for long after that  :devil
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Oxygen
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2013, 05:19:50 PM »

Cockpit hits and fuel fires do work marvels on them, they don't keep alt for long after that  :devil

Ahhhh ..... the oxygen system being disabled will not replace either.  :D

Offline Gman

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Re: Oxygen
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2013, 06:51:16 PM »
I like this idea, particularly if it is incorporated as a system that can be damaged or destroyed.  Forcing pilots with blown away o2 tanks to drop under 12 or 10k or whatever the altitude for "safe" flying is without a mask would be a good addition.

Offline Chalenge

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Re: Oxygen
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2013, 08:35:46 PM »
Just another way to start a fire. One explosive cannon shell into an O2 bottle and game over.

Pilots breathing O2? Too funny. Most believing in this suggestion are breathing complex micro-carbons already.
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Offline Gman

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Re: Oxygen
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2013, 09:50:50 PM »
I can cut and paste hundreds of excerpts from various WW2 books where oxygen tanks were used, and probably a dozen or so that refer to precisely what you're saying Chalenge, that the bottle explode when struck by large caliber rounds.  In fact, there is a quote I'm looking for right now from a top scoring L/W ace claiming he actually aimed for the "oxygen bottles and cockpit" of his targets.  There was also a P38 pilot, it was either McGuire or maybe Bong who told his students during gunnery lectures to actually aim for the oxygen bottles on the Japanese targets as the resulting ka-boom was a enough to kill the pilot and often the plane.  Considering this, I don't see why anyone would be so quick to dismiss and insult somebody's idea.  


If we have fuel tanks that are vulnerable and catch fire, why not the O2 bottles as well?  I know from the P51 pilots manual of my class mate from high school's P51 he owns (vintage wings Canada), it states clearly on the pages I read about the oxygen system that there are 2 different types of O2 bottles carried on board, and I think it was either 2 or 3 of each type.  The total air carried when in the bottles was over 3000 cu inches, well over 6 hours, and up to 10 or more at certain altitudes, as well as a ten or so minute reserve.  That's a lot of extra little targets that are very vulnerable to exploding like you said, or starting fires at the very least in larger planes like bombers and such.  

Offline Zacherof

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Re: Oxygen
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2013, 10:28:23 PM »
Hmm an even more realistic game. +1 again
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Oxygen
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2013, 02:53:56 AM »
I can cut and paste hundreds of excerpts from various WW2 books where oxygen tanks were used, and probably a dozen or so that refer to precisely what you're saying Chalenge, that the bottle explode when struck by large caliber rounds.  In fact, there is a quote I'm looking for right now from a top scoring L/W ace claiming he actually aimed for the "oxygen bottles and cockpit" of his targets.  There was also a P38 pilot, it was either McGuire or maybe Bong who told his students during gunnery lectures to actually aim for the oxygen bottles on the Japanese targets as the resulting ka-boom was a enough to kill the pilot and often the plane.  Considering this, I don't see why anyone would be so quick to dismiss and insult somebody's idea.  


If we have fuel tanks that are vulnerable and catch fire, why not the O2 bottles as well?  I know from the P51 pilots manual of my class mate from high school's P51 he owns (vintage wings Canada), it states clearly on the pages I read about the oxygen system that there are 2 different types of O2 bottles carried on board, and I think it was either 2 or 3 of each type.  The total air carried when in the bottles was over 3000 cu inches, well over 6 hours, and up to 10 or more at certain altitudes, as well as a ten or so minute reserve.  That's a lot of extra little targets that are very vulnerable to exploding like you said, or starting fires at the very least in larger planes like bombers and such.  

I understand Gman and that is not what I mean. This wish doesn't pass the #1 smell test of wishes. In other words, the wish presumes to force other players to fly in a manner more consistent with the wisher. Any wish that will cause any player to leave the game for instance, should never be granted. This wish smells to high heaven.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Oxygen
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2013, 08:21:28 AM »
I understand Gman and that is not what I mean. This wish doesn't pass the #1 smell test of wishes. In other words, the wish presumes to force other players to fly in a manner more consistent with the wisher. Any wish that will cause any player to leave the game for instance, should never be granted. This wish smells to high heaven.

Not sure what you're smelling here. This wish does not force anyone to fly or act any differently than what their historic counterparts or they, as players, would prefer. This certainly isn't the equivalent of turning off enemy icons. In other words, one may fly to the ceiling their aircraft allows, fight opponents there if they chose to fly likewise, dive on lower opponents and zoom back heavenward. The only change it would make is their need to keystroke masking up and breathing via an oxygen system when their altimeter hits a certain number or experience whatever HT codes to mimic hypoxia if they forget or choose (foe whatever odd reason) not to. That and the potential need to drop altitude if they take a hit and the randomizer (no matter how slim a chance) indicates that the flow of oxygen to pilot and/or crew has been interrupted (without a fiery explosion taking them all out).

This is not recommended as a simulated experience nobody would dare chance. I think what you thought you smelled was my 'sell' of this in a following post that didn't sit well with you.  :D

Offline Arlo

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Re: Oxygen
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2013, 10:53:29 AM »
"The oxygen supply is from a low-pressure system with a new American demand valve. During the trials this was not entirely satisfactory, and the majority of flying was limited to 30,000 feet as the flow above this height was unreliable; it is understood that a modified valve system is soon to be available. There is an aneroid control which relieves the pilot of the necessity of increasing the flow with altitude, and an indicator on the dashboard to show the oxygen delivery as each breath is taken. In an emergency the pilot can obtain pure oxygen, in which case the total amount takes 45 minutes to consume."

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/p-47c-afdu.html

"It is believed that the Combat Air Patrol should be placed at such an altitude that the pilots are not required to use oxygen while on patrol. It is felt that 10,000 feet is a satisfactory altitude, for from there they can be vectored out satisfactorily to intercept either low or high flying bogies. It has the additional advantage of being less tiring on the pilot, as he is more comfortable at a lower altitude and is not inconvenienced by having to wear an oxygen mask. In addition, too much time is wasted in having a CAP come down from 18,000 feet by the controlling fighter director. A low flying bogey was picked up and part of the CAP had to be brought down to investigate. By the time they got down the bogey had disappeared off the screen. The Yorktown maintained her CAP at 10,000 feet and successfully intercepted all bogies except for the one mentioned above."

http://www.history.navy.mil/docs/wwii/mid7.htm

"The extremely high altitude required of a typical reconnaissance flight held other unique challenges. Prior to the war, very few pilots had any experience flying above 20,000 feet. [61] At 35,000 feet, the new reconnaissance pilot suddenly found himself trying to manipulate aircraft controls in a sub-arctic environment where the temperature could easily fall to 50 degrees below zero. Pilots often wore so many layers of clothing that they had to be hoisted into the aircraft by helpful ground crews. [62] Oxygen deprivation was another constant hazard of high altitude flight. Oxygen masks and filtration systems were very primitive in 1940, and hypoxia, a loss of consciousness or coherence due to oxygen deprivation, was a very real danger. [63] If the cold and altitude sickness weren’t enough, an even greater peril of high altitude missions was the condensation trail that could appear at any time behind the aircraft. A contrail sent an open invitation to enemy fighters. If an air predator could not climb to reconnaissance altitude in time to engage, it would certainly be waiting on the return flight. Reconnaissance pilots even attached mirrors to their canopies in order to spot the dreaded contrails and drop below condensation altitude as quickly as possible in order to dissipate the telltale white ribbon dragging behind the aircraft. [64] "

http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/articles/airrecon.aspx

Having referenced such .... is modeling oxygen systems and hypoxia necessary to the game? Mnoooo. Should it be implemented in the Main if it's implemented in AvA or for events? Probably not. Is it something that HTC could possibly model without an extreme amount of effort? I'm of the opinion that this may be one of the easier requests but ... honestly .... until I have the skill or opportunity to fill those shoes - I really don't know.  :D