ENY values that may need HTC's attention

[SmokinLoon]

Specifically regarding the bombers: If the B29 is a 2, and the Boston, G4M, Ki-67, etc, are a 40, me thinks the Lancaster, B24, and B17 could use an adjustment in ENY and OBJ scores.  The gap is simply too big, imo.  Also, the Lancaster, B24, and B17 could all use a small perk cost as well considering their ability to lay waste to targets.  Think of the offensive capabilities, think of what they can do.  I know some will speak up regarding the Ar234 and Mossi B Mk 16 and their speed, but when was the last time anyone panicked when they saw a flight or 3 of Ar234's or Mossi B Mk 16's?  I'd much rather see a flight of Ar234's roaring over my airfield than a flight of B17's.  The speed demons are ultimately 1 pass wonders and wont be hanging around.  The Lancs, B24's, B17's, etc, can spread their damage over a much larger area and loiter for a lot longer thanks to defensive capabilities and escort benefits.

On suggesting a perk price for the Lanc, B24, and B17: currently, players keep banking earned perks and they ultimately have very little to spend their perks on (aside from the B29).  I say give the other heavy bombers their due and add a 1-2 perk cost to them, AND lower their ENY.  Remember, escort fighters in WWII were common so the "bombers are defenseless" argument is a double edged sword in AH.  Use escort fighters.     

[Karnak]

I would not object to seeing a number of planes perked at 1 to 2 points as we see with things like the M4A3(76), M18 and T-34/85.  I know that there are reasons why not, but I guess in for a penny in for a pound.

P-51D: 2 perks
La-7: 2 perks
Spitfire Mk XVI: 2 perks
B-17G: 2 perks
Lancaster Mk III: 2 perks
Typhoon Mk I: 1 perk
N1K2-J: 1 perk
P-47N: 1 perk
Fw190D-9: 1 perk
Bf109K-4: 1 perk
Spitfire Mk XIV: 1 perk
B-24J: 1 perk

[TOMCAT21]

I would not object to seeing a number of planes perked at 1 to 2 points as we see with things like the M4A3(76), M18 and T-34/85.  I know that there are reasons why not, but I guess in for a penny in for a pound.

P-51D: 2 perks
La-7: 2 perks
Spitfire Mk XVI: 2 perks
B-17G: 2 perks
Lancaster Mk III: 2 perks
Typhoon Mk I: 1 perk
N1K2-J: 1 perk
P-47N: 1 perk
Fw190D-9: 1 perk
Bf109K-4: 1 perk
Spitfire Mk XIV: 1 perk
B-24J: 1 perk
[/quote+1

[caldera]

The problem with perking heavies is that they will all fly over 25k.  Lowering their ENY and making the medium/light bombers a better bargain should be enough.  As much as I'd love to hit the 51D with a perk of 1-2 points, imagine the timidity factor going up further still.

Making superior hardware less rewarding (lower ENY) may be better than making them more costly.  Oh and having ENY kick in sooner would be a plus. 

There is a limit to that as well.  People want to fly the leet stuff, so you have to be careful how much ENY/perk tinkering gets done.  Making it lucrative to fly less than leet fighters and bombers, while still allowing the occasional use of the best stuff.  That's why the 51 dropped to 5 ENY but isn't perked.  Maybe a 4 or 3 ENY might help a little more.  Doubt it would help that much, though.  Perking would cut down the numbers, but that would mostly hurt the noobs.

Would be nice if the ENY scale was redone to go from 5-60 or 5-100 even.  There could be much more incentives to fly a 98 ENY G4M1 or 91 ENY Spit I, than a 5 ENY P-51D or B-29. 

[Karnak]

Those planes perked would leave the top free fighter spots to the P-47M, Spitfire Mk VIII, F4U-1D, P-38L, Bf109G-14, Yak-9U and Ki-84.  The top bomb free bomber would be the B-26B, as it currently stands, but the B-25J, Tu-2, Do217 and/or Ju188A would all be fully competitive with the B-26B should they be added.  P1Y1 wouldn't be useless either.

EDIT:

Caldera,

You have a strong point about timidity in the heavy bombers and fast fighters if perked.  Perhaps a larger ENY scale would be the way to go.  Perk prices would need to go up though, to adjust for the greater perk earning.  Shoot down a 5 ENY P-51D with a 100 ENY Hurricane Mk I and you'd get 25 perks after landing successfully.  A single, pretty common, kill.

[caldera]

Yeah, a lot would have to change (and a whole new slew of whines would ensue - hey, that rhymes.  almost like a haiku.  that rhymes too.  ) but I think some change is necessary. 

[Zacherof]

Now why would you want to perk the D9? I'd rather have the ENY at8 then see her perked.

[save]

In Main arena, only the 3-gun La-7 together with Tempests and F4u4, me262 me163 in fighter class, deserves perk and get release the spit14 from perk.

Many planes have weak spot vs other planes strengths : Example 38j is almost useless against correctly flown 190a-series since it compress at much lower speed. The 190a's nemesis are primary the La7, and secondary the p51d, p47m (all ENY-5)

[SmokinLoon]

In Main arena, only the 3-gun La-7 together with Tempests and F4u4, me262 me163 in fighter class, deserves perk and get release the spit14 from perk.

Many planes have weak spot vs other planes strengths : Example 38j is almost useless against correctly flown 190a-series since it compress at much lower speed. The 190a's nemesis are primary the La7, and secondary the p51d, p47m (all ENY-5)

While in a Dora, I'd actually prefer to fight against an La7 than a P51D.  I seem to have more trouble vs the P51D, not sure why.  I'd actually prefer to fight any of the P47's over the P51D as well. 

[Letalis]

While in a Dora, I'd actually prefer to fight against an La7 than a P51D.  I seem to have more trouble vs the P51D, not sure why.  I'd actually prefer to fight any of the P47's over the P51D as well.  

That strikes me as really weird.  My jug eats 51s for lunch when things get slow, P-47 harder and La7 is toughest.  The planeset is rife with "rock, paper, scissors" matchups.

Takeaways I'm seeing from the thread thus far:
1. Some ENY values appear inconsistent
2. A weighed ENY rubric would be useful.  (Different rubrics required for fighter/attack than bomber and gv obviously)  I think the concept I put out there a couple pages back is sound, it's still a matter of properly weighing relative attributes.  For instance, I made roll and turn co-equal at 100pts.  (What good is pulling G's in a given plane if you can't get there?)  Looking back, I'd probably throw 150 at turn and keep roll at 100.  I do not know enough about GVs to even make a coherent attempt at a rubric for them.
3. An expanded ENY range could be useful and more representative of relative capes.  (Also covered earlier)
4. Usage levels should be factored in as they can be as disruptive as basic unit capability.

I'm not in favor of changing ENY based on selected loadout-difficult and arbitrary.  The aircraft's ENY should reflect what it CAN do.  When looking at the 109G-2 for example I assessed its speed, climb, roll etc without gondolas, but firepower with.  Even though you'll never see the ENY potential represented in combat, you still pay a premium for options left on the ground as with the Pony.  

When it comes to buffs, you've got an interesting dilemma:  They have a great deal of destructive potential which would drive their ENY lower but at the same time they are very vulnerable.  It is not logical to predicate ENY on the assumption of escort.  And yet they can be dangerous to destroy.  A Ki-43 that downs a B17 deserves more credit than, say a 190A-8.  In this case you could use the relative values from the fighter's "engagement" category (specifically firepower and toughness) and compare it to the buff's "engagement" values (toughness, firepower, gun arcs) to arrive at an especially equitable perk reward.  

I don't have the time to build a buff rubric atm, but at first glance it doesn't seem to have the number of glaring issues the fighter roster does.  A B-17 deserves an A-A rating of 35ENY in my book on present scale and an A-G of 10.  Weighed for what it actually does, 15 seems pretty darn close.

[LCADolby]

There's nothing wrong with the ENYs. 

[Zacherof]

There's nothing wrong with the ENYs. 

ofcoarse there is! The K4's is obiously 2 high and undeserving of it. Gone are the days if easy perkfarming.

[Latrobe]

ofcoarse there is! The K4's is obiously 2 high and undeserving of it. Gone are the days if easy perkfarming.

I still got my 109F for perk farming!  And my G2, and my G6, and the Emil, and the 38G, and the 47D's, and the Yak's, and the 190A5. 

[Zacherof]

I still got my 109F for perk farming!   And my G2, and my G6, and the Emil, and the 38G, and the 47D's, and the Yak's, and the 190A5.  

not all of us are gods!

[--)SF----]

In Main arena, only the 3-gun La-7 together with Tempests and F4u4, me262 me163 in fighter class, deserves perk and get release the spit14 from perk.

Pfft