Author Topic: Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)  (Read 18767 times)

Offline GScholz

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Re: Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)
« Reply #225 on: November 17, 2013, 03:34:39 PM »
I have long advocated for the Bf109G-6/AS to be added so that the German side has a fighting chance in Mighty Eighth scenarios.

Yes it would be very nice to have. However, as a stopgap measure the AS 109s can be substituted by the K-4. The G-14/AS is for all intents and purposes a G-10 anyways, and the G-6/AS had worse performance only at lower altitudes (no MW50).
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Offline J.A.W.

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Re: Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)
« Reply #226 on: November 17, 2013, 04:33:17 PM »
A bit of thread drift maybe,
- are high alt' variant `109s - fighting in the stratosphere,
- relevant to the JABO discussion?

Of possible interest, C.Goss wrote 'L.W.F.B.s over Britain',
a book which gives an informative appraisal of the development of JABOs
& counter measures to them..
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 04:37:42 PM by J.A.W. »
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)
« Reply #227 on: November 17, 2013, 04:35:12 PM »
We're on page 16, what do you expect? Just be glad we're not discussing Barbra Streisand by now...
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Offline J.A.W.

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Re: Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)
« Reply #228 on: November 17, 2013, 04:39:05 PM »
Cue South Park.. "You basterds!"

Fair enough, given Earl's bizarre crusade to make a silk purse out of a sows ear,
A-1.. as top gun-wise..
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 04:43:43 PM by J.A.W. »
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Offline MK-84

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Re: Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)
« Reply #229 on: November 17, 2013, 05:36:56 PM »
So you're saying they were not withdrawn from the ETO, but transferred to the MTO...  Select choice of words there Widewing.  :aok

You may want to reread his quote

Offline J.A.W.

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Re: Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)
« Reply #230 on: November 17, 2013, 05:49:28 PM »
Yes, I think he has mistaken 9th TAF in the ETO for 15th AF in MTO..

Incidentally, the P-38 wasn't all that hot in the MTO either.

The top-gun USAAF fighter group in the MTO - flew Spitfires/Mustangs..
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)
« Reply #231 on: November 17, 2013, 05:52:11 PM »
My apologies for not being clear.  In any case, finding axis fighters to fight at that time was difficult.

For the British it was but not for the 8th and 15th AFs who were still being attacked right up to the end.

Offline J.A.W.

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Re: Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)
« Reply #232 on: November 17, 2013, 05:56:18 PM »
Not so, in fact the British 2nd TAF were the primary opponents of the LW's
'Top Guns' - JG 26  - from the invasion to the war's end..

Since the LW Command determined that fighting JABOs was the best
use of their resources..

& the RAF sent their best - Tempests & Spitfire XIVs - in the air-superiority role specifically to suppress them..
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 06:00:56 PM by J.A.W. »
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)
« Reply #233 on: November 17, 2013, 06:07:36 PM »
You may want to reread his quote

Yeah, my mistake.
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Offline J.A.W.

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Re: Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)
« Reply #234 on: November 17, 2013, 06:34:50 PM »
This will give an idea of the job the Tempest Squadrons had against the LW,
- in the 2nd TAF during `44-45.

http://www.hawkertempest.se/Victories.htm

& some of the fighting did indeed involve high Mach pursuit/shoot downs..

http://www.hawkertempest.se/441006.htm
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)
« Reply #235 on: November 17, 2013, 06:35:40 PM »
Not so, in fact the British 2nd TAF were the primary opponents of the LW's
'Top Guns' - JG 26  - from the invasion to the war's end..

Since the LW Command determined that fighting JABOs was the best
use of their resources..

& the RAF sent their best - Tempests & Spitfire XIVs - in the air-superiority role specifically to suppress them..

WEDNESDAY, 4 APRIL 1945

2 missions are flown. Mission 926: 1,431 bombers and 866 fighters are dispatched to hit airfields, a shipyard and a U-boat shipyard in Germany; they claim 30-4-30 Luftwaffe aircraft; 10 bombers and 4 fighters are lost. 1. 438 B-24s are sent to hit Parchim (33) and Perleberg (29) Airfields; 97 hit Wesendorf Airfield, the secondary; attacks are visual; they claim 6-4-6 aircraft; 6 B-24s are lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 76 damaged; 1 airman is KIA and 59 MIA. Escorting are 324 P-47s and P-51s; the P-47s claim 14-0-20 aircraft and the P-51s claim 9-0-3 aircraft; 1 P-47 and 3 P-51s are lost. 2. 443 B-17s are sent to hit Fassberg Airfield (149); secondary targets hit are Hoya (37) and Dedelsdorf (13) Airfields; targets of opportunity are Unterluss (39) and other (24); bombing is visual; 1 B-17 is lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 58 damaged; 1 airman is KIA, 6 WIA and 4 MIA. The escort is 220 of 232 P-51s; 1 is lost. 3. 505 of 526 B-17s hit the Deutsche shipyard at Kiel using H2X radar; 2 others hit Eggebeck Airfield, a target of opportunity; 3 B-17s are lost and 50 damaged; 27 airmen are MIA. 208 of 223 P-51s without loss. 4. 22 of 24 B-17s fly a DISNEY mission attacking the Finkenwarder U-boat yard at Hamburg without loss. 5. 19 P-51s fly a scouting mission and claim 0-0-1 aircraft. 6. 25 P-51s escort 8 F-5s and 2 P-38s on photo and radar reconnaissance missions over Germany, claiming 1-0-0 aircraft. 7. 16 P-51s escort 1 OA-10 and 2 B-17s on air-sea-rescue patrols.

Offline MiloMorai

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Re: Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)
« Reply #236 on: November 17, 2013, 06:40:08 PM »
Hawker Tempests made 240 claims during WW2.

Offline J.A.W.

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Re: Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)
« Reply #237 on: November 17, 2013, 06:43:26 PM »
Tempests were kept busy from June `44 shooting down 800+ V1 cruise missiles as well.

& glad you put 'claim' in bold there, M.M., how many of those claims were confirmed by gun-cam or were matched with LW loss records do you reckon?

You do know that 8th AF allowed friendly-fire claims confirmed [caught on film]
to stand - as kill credits..
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 06:52:25 PM by J.A.W. »
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Offline J.A.W.

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Re: Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)
« Reply #238 on: November 17, 2013, 06:48:13 PM »
M.M. can you find the A2A claims for 9th TAF P-38 units as a comparison?
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Best Single Engine fighter-Bomber(Prop Driven)
« Reply #239 on: November 17, 2013, 07:23:11 PM »
So you're saying they were not withdrawn from the ETO, but transferred to the MTO...  Select choice of words there Widewing.  :aok

The 9th in the MTO generally operated at lower altitudes than the 8th, and thus the P-38 could operate there more effectively.


No wonder. The Luftwaffe could just ignore them for most of the war.

The Thunderbolt ended the war in the Mustang's shadow, and did not get to go to Korea with the Mustang and Corsair. Unlike the Mustang, Spitfire, and ironically even the 109, production of the Thunderbolt was halted at war's end.

Argh.... The 9th AF was in the ETO... They provided fighter cover for 9th AF medium bombers as well as tactical air support for ground ops. They engaged the Luftwaffe with great frequency.

In the MTO, 15th AF B-17s and B-24s flew at the same altitudes as in the ETO (see the report below). The fighters didn't fly lower. Indeed, Gen. Twining refused to follow Doolittle's example and insisted on the fighters flying close escort, surrendering tactical advantage. P-38s flew escort until the end of 1944 (at least), long after the 8th had sent their P-38s to the 9th AF (which flew out of Britain, and later operated from bases on the continent).



As to when the P-47 ceased production.... The Last N models were delivered in December of 1945, about the same time the last P-51D was delivered. P-51H deliveries ended in 1946. Both companies saw contracts cancelled, and both were gearing up for the manufacture of jet fighters.

As to the speed of the 109G-6/AS...

Performance of the Me 109 G with DB 605 AS.   
Test Report Nr. 109 20 L43
 Date 22.1.44
 Copy   4
 Dept. Flight Testing
 Group Performance

 
1.) Speed at sea level: 315 mph        
2.) Speed at FTH: 406 mph        
3.) Full throttle height: 27,231 ft.    

And this:
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.