F4U-4 vs. other low ENY

[RotBaron]

If you're skilled or an expert in the F4U -4 I hope you'll take the time to read. Sorry, I know it's lengthy, but a good deal of thought went into it.   in advance.

I've been flying the -4 a little bit lately. I'm not terribly concerned with losing the perks, but I don't want to give them away either.

Upon reading Soda's write up I thought wow this must be a fantastic plane and well worth the perks. Then I encountered its' common rivals; P-51D being the most common, La-7, 109K-4.

The reason I listed the above is primarily based on speed, I'm sure you could put a Spit in there or maybe something else, but I don't fly them and I'm not familiar enough, thus I can only make my argument with the above; I know them well.

So based off of HiTech's data and the old Gonzoville charts, I'm at a loss why this plane is perked. Yes it would dominate carrier based attacks if it weren't, however it really doesn't outperform any of the aforementioned. Here's why:

A. It is last in this group even with WEP below 5K in speed. Not using WEP it's 3rd, the K-4 being just slightly slower.
B. At military it only begins to to be first in speed at ~17k.  With WEP it's 2nd at ~15k, and never eclipses the K-4 (except below 3k - already mentioned.)
C. Climb at Mil to 13k it's 3rd. After 13k it overshadows the P-51 and La-7, but again never the K-4. The climb is where I think it gets very interesting: climb with WEP it's again 3rd until 10k where the La-7   drops off.
    In this instance, climb with WEP, it is kind of lackluster (to its' AH rivals)being about 3,800ft/m up to 15k, which is well below the K-4 and  below 10k only marginally better than the P51-D.
D. Acceleration at military: it's 3rd throughout the envelope to 300mph.
E. Top end/speed acceleration at 500', it remains 3rd.
F. No flaps turn radius: it's 2nd just barely beating the K-4. With full flaps it's 1st, but of course that's common to all of the Corsair's and one of their greatest strengths.
G. "low alt" (500') top speed it's 3rd, but all are within 20mph of one another.

Finally "lethality" puts it almost squarely with the P-51D, looks like it carries a more bullets total, not sure how much atm - not logged in. However, I think lethality is arbitrary because if you're not hitting the guy in front of you, more bullets aren't really an issue. Also, the K-4's lethality is dependent upon preference, sometimes ppl land/rearm when the cannon is gone depending.

I really started this thread with the intention of getting opinion and help learning to fly it to its' strengths. I welcome any opinions, thoughts, comments and help you can offer. I've been starting with very high alt to make sure P-51's don't get above me and then descending to the fight - BnZ'n.

However, after looking all this data up and giving it consideration, I think this thread could provide us non -4 guys help to learn it, and also make an argument to augment its' perk-ing.

I think the heart of the argument is that it is outclassed by the La-7 in almost every way where ~75% of the fighting is taking place. Once it gets up higher, the P-51 and the K-4 are either better or comparable with varying margins depending on altitude and speed.

So, whatcha think? Only reason I see it perked for is that it would be the dominate plane used off of CVs, but what's most likely to engage it in that scenario; La-7's and Spits...

   

[Zacherof]

I find once it's flaps our out it's scissors (if done right) are lethal.
I feel it hangs on it's prop better than the pony. La is a different fight and dangerous opponent.

K4 is also dangerous to clap with but f4 will out roll it
not to mentios turn fights better

[bozon]

So, it needs to be #1 in every category at all altitudes to justify its perk tag? and dont forget that you are comparing to La7 and K4, both of which are perk worthy in my view. It is better than the P-51 in every possible way except range and beats the others as a whole package.
Oh yes and it carries as much ords as the P-51 and much much more than the others.
and it takes off of carriers.
and it just barely saw any WWII combat. I think it has the latest enter-service date of all AH set, perhaps except for the Ta-152.

The last line alone justify a perk tag in my book. I know many would not agree, but since MWA is a ghost town, LWA IS aces high and I do not want "late war" to become "last day of WWII" arena. We already have the P47s dominated by the M model which only one FG used, La7 with 3 cannons that represent 2% of the actual serving planes and we do not need an insignificant F4U-4 to turn all other Corsairs into hangar queens. Oh yes, there is the C-hog too, thousands of which were in service...

[Slade]

I do not want "late war" to become "last day of WWII" arena.

Nicely stated.  Nor do I. 

[33Vortex]

The perk tag is more likely a reflection of it being very rare (introduced late) in WW2. One could make the argument to exclude this one from the game in much the same way the Ta152 could be excluded simply because the types did not make a significant impact on the outcome of the war. It's just a (very) late-war ride and the perk reflects that. Perks are not a penalty-of-performance.

[Lusche]

The perk tag is more likely a reflection of it being very rare (introduced late) in WW2. One could make the argument to exclude this one from the game in much the same way the Ta152 could be excluded simply because the types did not make a significant impact on the outcome of the war. It's just a (very) late-war ride and the perk reflects that. Perks are not a penalty-of-performance.

Perks have never ever been a reflection of 'real world' usage, numbers or date of introduction.
They are only about gameplay impact.

And based on plane performance alone, the F4U-4 is absolutely top notch, carrying a total combination of specs that few, if any, fighters can match. In the MA, the Tempest is the only prop plane with a sustained greater level of success, because of the even higher speed and the 4 Hispanos.

[Karnak]

The F4U-4 is simply the finest air-to-air combat plane in AH.  Isolating its traits and comparing them, inaccurately, against other aircraft one by one ignores the effect of the total package.  That it has great air-to-mud capability as well and flies off of boats is just bonus.

[Saxman]

Keep in mind: The 1-series F4Us are still among the better non-perk fighters due to their blend of characteristics. This is in spite of two major flaws: poor to average rates of climb and acceleration, meaning once the Hog is out of E it's not getting it back quickly, especially in a big fight (regardless of its flaps, being slow in a 1-series Corsair sucks). The F4U-4 eliminates BOTH, so now you've got a Hog that can shed and regain energy AT WILL. And this is a fast, tough plane that is highly maneuverable across a HUGE speed range. Seeing it yet?

Remember, most planes rely on either high or low-speed maneuverability. The Corsair has BOTH, and now you have a machine that can switch back and forth practically on the fly.

[33Vortex]

Ok so then perks becomes a matter of performance and advantage over other players. As you may know I fly LW planes only and consider the -4 to be one of the toughest opponents. It's ultimately about the pilot but in capable hands that aircraft is tougher than a tempest, much more agile than the 262 and a allround better package than any spitfire.

I enjoyed the F4U-4 a lot before joining the 11th, especially from flattops.

[Zacherof]

Not to mention the 4hog is a bomb truck.

And if you get her light, she is a demon. Climbs like a banshee, turns on a time, accelerates like a bat outa hell,

deffinatly worth the perk price

[Saxman]

What it ultimately comes down to, is the F4U-4 is a "Do Anything" plane. The P-51D, 109K-4 and La-7 all excel at a particular type of fight at a particular altitude range. The 4-Hog can fight any type of fight, whether it's energy, angles, high-altitude, or on the deck, AND it can swing between them practically at will. It's also a solid bomb truck with a large ordinance load and able to take a hell of a beating. Its gun package is arguably second all-around only to the Hispano when you factor in both hitting power AND ballistics properties of the Ma Deuce.

[RotBaron]

Did the some of you writing these responses read the comparisons I made?  Sounds like a lot are giving their opinion here of the aircraft void of the data. Yes, I did ask for opinion, but didn't mean opinion to make your argument vs. the perk, I meant your opinion on how you like/prefer to fly it.

The F4U-4 comes in 3rd place in a lot of categories where the majority of fighting is done in AH. Yes flaps out changes things, but as I stated that is the calling card of all Corsairs. Overall below ~10k, the F4U-4 is 3rd place.  And it is in 3rd place by a pretty good margin, that is only against the three I put up...

Here's one for you, the La-7 beats the F4U-4 in every single way below 10k. If you're flying it off of a carrier what alt are you going to be at? 20k where it excels or down low because you're assisting in a base grab. Furthermore I also compared the Spit 14, faster than the F4U-4 again where fights take place.

As far as being perked because the ord it can pack, that's a ridiculous reason if so, who wastes time/perks with a perkie to pack ord? Taking ord with a perk plane is a waste of time, when there are so many others better suited to it and no need to risk perks.

[titanic3]

An F4U1A can already pretty easily handle a La-7 in an equal E fight...I'm pretty sure the -4 will kick the La-7's bellybutton in 3 turns max. The only card the La-7 has is speed and a little extra climbing power, but definitely not enough to survive a TnB fight.

[RotBaron]

Not to mention the 4hog is a bomb truck.

And if you get her light, she is a demon. Climbs like a banshee, turns on a time, accelerates like a bat outa hell,

deffinatly worth the perk price

Hey Zach, did you look the -4's climb, not really that impressive, even worse if someone wants to engage you before you get to a desired E state and on your way to a fight carrying drop tanks. 3,800 ft/m at a clean take. Full fuel below 10k not that impressive, K-4 and La-7 easily crawl up its' backside.

[Karnak]

Did the some of you writing these responses read the comparisons I made?  Sounds like a lot are giving their opinion here of the aircraft void of the data. Yes, I did ask for opinion, but didn't mean opinion to make your argument vs. the perk, I meant your opinion on how you like/prefer to fly it.

The F4U-4 comes in 3rd place in a lot of categories where the majority of fighting is done in AH. Yes flaps out changes things, but as I stated that is the calling card of all Corsairs. Overall below ~10k, the F4U-4 is 3rd place.   And that is only against the three I put up...

Here's one for you, the La-7 beats the F4U-4 in every single way below 10k. If you're flying it off of a carrier what alt are you going to be at? 20k where it excels or down low because you're assisting in a base grab. Furthermore I also compared the Spit 14, faster than the F4U-4 again where fights take place.

As far as being perked because the ord it can pack, that's a ridiculous reason if so, who wastes time/perks with a perkie to pack ord? Taking ord with a perk plane is a waste of time, when there are so many others better suited to it and no need to risk perks.

Did you read our responses?  It seems not based on this reply.  Also, your speed on the deck number was off, you put the F4U-4 in 3rd place when it would be in second, beating both the P-51D and Bf109K-4.

The problem is you are isolating performance characteristics and ranking them without consideration of how important they are, how closely matched they are or how the whole of them meshes together to work in combat.

The F4U-4 is superior, by a significant margin, to every other piston engined fighter in the game.  This has been demonstrated repeatedly through the years.  All a Tempest can do is run or die when facing an F4U-4.