Making a case for later D models

[33Vortex]

Would it be enough better to warrant perking?  The Fw190D-9 isn't close to being perked.

Maybe, I think so. The Dora with the Jumo 213E is even faster than the Ta152C at low altitudes, primarily because of the 0.50 meter shorter wing span but also because it is lighter. I don't know... perhaps I'm damaged from only flying Luftwaffe planes for years and years, but I wouldn't mind it being perked.

[Karnak]

Maybe, I think so. The Dora with the Jumo 213E is even faster than the Ta152C at low altitudes, primarily because of the 0.50 meter shorter wing span but also because it is lighter. I don't know... perhaps I'm damaged from only flying Luftwaffe planes for years and years, but I wouldn't mind it being perked.

My concern is that if it turns out not to be good enough to be perked it would just make the push to fly fast planes even stronger.  The faster the average speed in the MA is the stronger the push to just fly the 360mph+ on the deck planes is, and that isn't a large variety in planes or handling.

[alpini13]

those other d variants did not fight in squadron strength and there are no confirmed kills with them.....however,there is ANOTHER model of the 190 late war aircraft you did not mention...           the FW190 A-9.  they made about 900 or so,fought in squad strength,got kills. difference between the A-8 and the A-9?   more armour and better climb and speed due to more powerful enging, better in adverse conditions due to all weather gear,better rear vision due to revised canopy.

[Stampf]

those other d variants did not fight in squadron strength and there are no confirmed kills with them.....however,there is ANOTHER model of the 190 late war aircraft you did not mention...           the FW190 A-9.  they made about 900 or so,fought in squad strength,got kills. difference between the A-8 and the A-9?   more armour and better climb and speed due to more powerful enging, better in adverse conditions due to all weather gear,better rear vision due to revised canopy.

Not correct.  JV44 scored a confirmed victory in one of their (at least 2) D-11's.


That said...YES to the A-9!  


EDIT: and Yes to a perk on D-13.

[33Vortex]

Yes, a perk on any late D model put in the game would be a sound measure. It should not be a common sight in the MA, should probably be perked on the same level as, or close to, the F4U-4.

[Butcher]

Not correct.  JV44 scored a confirmed victory in one of their (at least 2) D-11's.


That said...YES to the A-9!  


EDIT: and Yes to a perk on D-13.

I really would like to see the proper 190F/8 or 9 as well as the G being added. Thus being said, one reason I push so hard for EW/MW is to fill these frames out - What seen combat more 190G or 190D-13?

What I would like to see HTC do one day, is when they add the 190G (upgrade the F while at it) throw in a D-13 or something as a "bonus" - we have a few frames like this, Ki-61 for example (three versions).
I understand this won't happen, each aircraft was quite different, the amount of testing time means it would take forever to do all this at once, but just an idea to throw around.

I am just curious whether the 30mm or 20mm version of the D-13 would be added, I am showing both in quite a few references, but i dunno know its specifications as far as speed is. I would imagine the D-13 would easily be perked, but it would be a nice to have the P-63 as well in this case.
A little Late war Perked plane battle

[Karnak]

Yes, a perk on any late D model put in the game would be a sound measure. It should not be a common sight in the MA, should probably be perked on the same level as, or close to, the F4U-4.

Units aren't perked or not based on historical rarity in AH, just if they would have negative impact on the game if uncontrolled.  The B-239 and Ta152 aren't perked (yes, I know the Ta152 was originally) but the B-29 (3000 built) and Mosquito Mk XVI (1200 built) are perked.

[Zacherof]

A3 and A G model first please

[Stampf]

I really would like to see the proper 190F/8 or 9 as well as the G being added. Thus being said, one reason I push so hard for EW/MW is to fill these frames out - What seen combat more 190G or 190D-13?

What I would like to see HTC do one day, is when they add the 190G (upgrade the F while at it) throw in a D-13 or something as a "bonus" - we have a few frames like this, Ki-61 for example (three versions).
I understand this won't happen, each aircraft was quite different, the amount of testing time means it would take forever to do all this at once, but just an idea to throw around.

I am just curious whether the 30mm or 20mm version of the D-13 would be added, I am showing both in quite a few references, but i dunno know its specifications as far as speed is. I would imagine the D-13 would easily be perked, but it would be a nice to have the P-63 as well in this case.
A little Late war Perked plane battle

Certainly the G models need some attention.

I would like the 20mm example myself.  Any addition/upgrade to the Luftwaffe stable is great and appreciated by me, but that goes for any of the airforce's really.

More planes/more fun!

[33Vortex]

Units aren't perked or not based on historical rarity in AH, just if they would have negative impact on the game if uncontrolled.  The B-239 and Ta152 aren't perked (yes, I know the Ta152 was originally) but the B-29 (3000 built) and Mosquito Mk XVI (1200 built) are perked.

A perk may be warranted for on the 213E powered Doras based on speed alone. It is a valid measure to prevent the MA being completely dominated by late war planes. It is bad enough as it is.

[Wmaker]

Any information or books would be helpful,

As mentioned, there isn't whole a lot to be added but here's something from Jerry Crandall who has done a lot of research on these last Dora variants:

- Oberkommando der Luftwaffe Generalquartiermeister reported that seventeen D-11 had been produced (four with EZ42 gyro gunsight).

- JV44's Platzschuztstaffel had at least one D-11 (Red 4).

- Some D-11s are reported to have been in the Unit Leaders School at Bad Wörishofen.

- There were plans to produce 820 D-11s at Focke Wulf's Sorau factory beginning on January '45.

- Fieseler's Kassel plant was to produce 1420 D-12s starting Jan '45.

- The plan was for the Arbeitsgruppe Roland to produce 1130 D-12s from May '45 on but the plan was cancelled in favor of the D-13.

Obviously these production plans were never realized.


Regarding D-13s:

Two D-13 protypes were built (V62 and V71) after prototype testing D-13/R11 was chosen as a production variant. The production was done by Arbeitsgruppe Roland, however the exact location of the final assembly of the D-13s is unclear (the Arbeitsgruppe consisted of several companies' plants on several locations) but it was most probably Mimetall Erfirt as A-9s and D-9s are known to have been built there. Arbeitsgruppe Roland was to be the only manufacturer of the D-13 with 1060 to be built starting Jan '45. The evidence regarding D-13 production is very rare. The only known evidence comes from Oberkommando der Luftwaffe Generalquartiermeister Nr.2766/45 document dated 7th April 1945. The document is reporting on the previous month (March '45). No later document is known to exist. There was a warning issued that there would be delays in D-13 deliveries due to the lack of documents supplied to the various factories and contractors. Based on the Yellow 10's W.Nr. 863017 would suggest that at least seventeen could have been built. The report mentions that two D-13s were in service by the date of the report.

[Stampf]

As mentioned, there isn't whole a lot to be added but here's something from Jerry Crandall who has done a lot of research on these last Dora variants:

- Oberkommando der Luftwaffe Generalquartiermeister reported that seventeen D-11 had been produced (four with EZ42 gyro gunsight).

- JV44's Platzschuztstaffel had at least one D-11 (Red 4).

- Some D-11s are reported to have been in the Unit Leaders School at Bad Wörishofen.

- There were plans to produce 820 D-11s at Focke Wulf's Sorau factory beginning on January '45.

- Fieseler's Kassel plant was to produce 1420 D-12s starting Jan '45.

- The plan was for the Arbeitsgruppe Roland to produce 1130 D-12s from May '45 on but the plan was cancelled in favor of the D-13.


Regarding D-13s:

Two D-13 protypes were built (V62 and V71) after prototype testing D-13/R11 was chose as a production variant. The production was done by Arbeitsgruppe Roland, however the exact location of the final assembly of the D-13s is unclear (the Arbeitsgruppe consisted of several companies' plants on several locations) but it was most probably Mimetall Erfirt as A-9s and D-9s are known to have been built there. Arbeitsgruppe Roland was to be the only manufacturer of the D-13 with 1060 to be built starting Jan '45. The evidence regarding D-13 production is very rare. The only known evidence comes from Oberkommando der Luftwaffe Generalquartiermeister Nr.2766/45 document dated 7th April 1945. The document is reporting on the previous month (March '45). No later document is known to exist. There was a warning issued that there would be delays in D-13 deliveries due to the lack of documents supplied to the various factories and contractors. Based on the Yellow 10's W.Nr. 863017 would suggest that at least seventeen could have been built. The report mentions that two D-13s were in service by the date of the report.

Accurate and correct.

- Some D-11s are reported to have been in the Unit Leaders School at Bad Wörishofen.

This would likely be the White <58 and White <61 examples as that is consistant with Unit Leader School procedure.  Though White <61 was found with JV44's birds and possibly flown opperationally with them.

[Guppy35]

OK fine. Give the Luftwaffe guys all the 109s and 190 variants they want.  but on top of the Spit VII, XII, LFIX and Seafire LFIII, we want to be able to play the Spit 21 card too as it's wartime use was as extensive as some of these late 190s

[Butcher]

OK fine. Give the Luftwaffe guys all the 109s and 190 variants they want.  but on top of the Spit VII, XII, LFIX and Seafire LFIII, we want to be able to play the Spit 21 card too as it's wartime use was as extensive as some of these late 190s

(Image removed from quote.)

That's fair, Luft fans get what they want, Spitfans get what they want.

Gimmie my damn Re.2005 and Ge.55 then!

[Arlo]

Sparviero