Sorry State of Affairs!

[palef]

Then keep your head stuck in the sand if you don't want to hear the truth.  I guess as some pointed out, it is far easier to blame spies for your mission's failure than to admit it was busted because some couldn't stay below 'dar.

ack-ack

Conspiracies are always easier to organise than making actual mistakes.  

[guncrasher]

Well Semp, perhaps you missed what was said on 200 before you piped up. BushLT said GV Mission to 144, spawned in and waited with Dr7, and a couple other and no one showed.  Guess you missed that part, so of course you couldn't pick up the sarcasm in my statement of "Need more bish to 144". But instead of asking or scrolling up you proceeded to gloat.

The reason I had 1 B24 is it was damage and taken out by LA7, 190 and a 262 prior to you showing up in you LA7. So your right I got my tail handled to me by 4 different players.  I'll cancel my account.

no, I didnt pick up the sarcasm because you didnt use the sarcasm font.  then again you didnt notice my sarcasm either did ya? 


semp

[RedBull1]

At this point, after reading many of his threads I can tell that Earl is always right and anything anyone else says to contradict him is incorrect

[BaldEagl]

It's funny how these NOE missions are always busted by spies despite the fact it's difficult for a good player to stay under 65' over terrain and now you're expecting a rat pack of average pick-up mission players to do it.

Nah... couldn't be the skill level of the mission players... has to be spies.  

BTW Earl, how do you know no one broke dar?  Darbar, which you could see unless it was only you breaking it, wouldn't break unless someone was over 200' but dot dar (which only the opposition could see) would break if you're in an enemy radar ring over 65'.  The only way you could know no one broke dot dar is if you had spies of your own.  If that's what you're unwittingly admitting to due to your adamance about not breaking it then it seems this is a pretty hipocritical post.

[Doc72]

There was no dar bar what so ever in the sector the noe buff's were flying in. However, there were many pretty little red dots showing up in the dar ring they were flying through.      But what's better than busting an noe buff raid to the strats??? Reading the country text buffer when someone types "out noe raid to such and such a base". Then launching an noe intercept raid to kill the incoming noe raid!!! We did well at not raising a dar bar as well.       and having a   back at the O club while they blame spies for revealing their location and target. Yes, this noe raid was busted as they were just leaving their own dar ring by an enemy that was skirting said dar ring trying to get home after a raid and put it out on country..

[Golden Dragon]

Nap of the Earth buffs.  Yummy.  Send more, the first batch was delicious.

[HGANCHOR]

As much as I love busting up NOE's, they are going to say your crazy and do nothing about what you are probably write about.  That is why some folks bail, plain and simple.

[Nathan60]

Predictable.  The last snap shot I seen had 17 people in it.  I've done FSO, can't remember seeing a Polesti raid in FSO. Scenarios do not fit well with my life schedule.  But please continue to offer advice on where I can have fun with historical background involved.

AVA

[Nathan60]

Unless it's a bunch of guys who do it often, NOE for more than a sector is just asking for busted props or dar flashes. 

What do you have to be under anyway?  50ft?

Queue well know "Downfall' parody

[5PointOh]

AVA

Just curious, do I really have to go to another arena to partake in a mission that has historical value?  Not to mention in the AVA I'd be the only group of 24s.

[Nathan60]

Just curious, do I really have to go to another arena to partake in a mission that has historical value?  Not to mention in the AVA I'd be the only group of 24s.

Nope you can be historical all you want in the MA, that doesn't mean everyone else will be

[Nutzoid]

Guys, with what alls been said, I don't know if what I'm going to say will change minds or not about what happened to this NOE mission and it's outcome but I'll say this and let anyone comment as they see fit. I logged into AH about an hour before the mission, ( a reenactment of the Polesti raid) and there was a person talking with a Devil Dog member on vox 171. Now I know who this person was and what squad he belongs to, but I won't mention his name. The conversation was about nothing much at all, until the subject of the squad night mission that night. The non Devil Dog, after hearing that there was going to be a big mission that night stated " cool, I might just switch back to Knights and intercept it". Now I don't know if this person actually participated in the "ambush", but he might have alerted his friends. I can't say with absolute certainty that this person had anything to do with it, but this is what he said. I know this because I heard it, I was there.
So with this being said, you guys make the call, coincidence or not.

Nutz

[oTRALFZo]

Last night, 10-1-13, the 94th Bomb Group flew a re-enactment mission to the Knights strats. NOE, with three different groups, approaching from 3 different directions, not one iota of a dar bar showing anywhere in the 3 different sections we were in. Half way to the target, we are bounced by 2 262's, number's of other fighters and entire force of 33 bombers were shot down and I think about 90% of the fighters, who were low and heavy!
Problem was, we had a couple of people on our VOX channel, who after the mission launched, joined the knights and I guess they were in on the slaughter. I won't mention any names, because I wasn't inside their head and could't see what they were thinking. Maybe it was just bad timing, but to have three different groups in three different sectors, all getting jumped by a number of fighters, when there was no way anyone could know we were coming, because no dar bar was showing, so someone had to be listening to our VOX communication about where we were going.
what makes those kind of people "tick" is beyond me! In my opinion, this is one more reason for channel 200 being shut down. Once we were bounced by the first 262, as if by magic, other fighters swarmed in for the kill of the B-24's which were at 65 feet AGL I don't have a problem with someone discovering a flight of bombers and announcing that on the VOX channel in use at the time, but the ability to tell everyone in Aces High what is happening, anywhere on the map in play is, I don't even know how to express the wrong in that. I personally have never tuned channel 200 since I have been in this game, because the unknown as to what is ahead is one of the excitements of the game.
We did return at high altitude and damaged the strats considerably, and was a fun mission and even with the large dar bars showing our position, hardly any fighters came up to contest the space in the skies with us! But, knowing all those buffs and fighters were NOE, a lot of people were rubbing their hands and saying, "oh boy, fish in a barrel"!

Some advice: Don't go to Vegas and expect to come out a rich man.
NOE attacks are simply just a gamble. Although you may have the element of surprise, you are compromising the fact that it is much harder to defend yourself.  IMO, NOE attacks are only successful simply because the other side is mainly focused in a certain area and no one bothers to defend the area being attacked.

Also keep in mind how easy it is to spot or even predict a NOE will take place. Certain squads, mission leaders when spotted on the active roster is often an indication. When a "hot zone" of enemy activity suddenly becomes silent, is often some indication that somewhere on the map will get the 500 NOE P38s. Other times when a mission takes off from a base that is not off the water or is in rough terrain, Dar Bars rise and then vanish is another tell tale sign.

CV Dar rings are the biggest culprit. Keep in mind also that if you do not show dar bar, you can still be spotted on dar ring if not below 65ft which even for the seasoned buff driver, is very difficult.

Also keep in mind that players ARE watching maps. Of the 2 or 3 NOE missions I have busted from scouting, I have had about 20 false alarms. Bottom line is here that you cannot have your cake and eat it too. Although your intentions of historical accuracy and break of the norm cookie cutter mission is admired, I could of told you running NOE buffs to strats are doomed to begin with. The MA is just not set up for those dynamics. Even if no fighters were there to engage, I am sure a great portion of the mission would of been doomed to puffy and AAA.

[5PointOh]

Nope you can be historical all you want in the MA, that doesn't mean everyone else will be

I'm thinking and I could be wrong, but you haven't read through my post on this topic.  So I while appreciate your input, at no time did I say I expect a certain player(s) to follow my guidelines on the playing of AH.

[Citabria]

congrats earl on your first whine.

you will encounter many more chances for extreme aggrivation when playing but thats part of the fun. (or so they say)

the trick is to change your strategy to find the most satisfaction and least aggrivation by altering your tactics.

if you find what you have done gives you unsatisfactory results a change in tactics is advised.

sometimes succesfull tactics to defeat conditions faced are elusive.

when this happens several whine options are available...

1. ch200 whine: profanity is prefered. a really good whine on ch200 should result in being muted.

2. bbs whine: advantage of bbs whine is length of whine is unlimited. thread being locked is a sign of very good bbs whine.

3. squad vox whine: generally the best choice as the most stress relieving as a truly classic rant on squad vox is amusing to everyone on channel and you get to really let the curse words fly. sometimes squaddies will record a really good vox whine for all to enjoy.