Early Man

[Motherland]

Objectively

That's a pretty tall claim man

[wpeters]

That's a pretty tall claim man

every bit which is true.  Believe it or not is up to. Kanak asked for proof and here it is

[Karnak]

Interesting story, but not proof, though I do not doubt you are entirely sincere about it.

You seemed to conflate evolution of abiogenesis there.  Evolution has nothing to do with the creation of life, just with how life changes over time.  There has to be life for there to be evolution.  Abiogenesis is a different subject that relates to the creation of life and there is vastly less known about it than about evolution.

[Arlo]

Interesting story, but not proof, though I do not doubt you are entirely sincere about it.

You seemed to conflate evolution of abiogenesis there.  Evolution has nothing to do with the creation of life, just with how life changes over time.  There has to be life for there to be evolution.  Abiogenesis is a different subject that relates to the creation of life and there is vastly less known about it than about evolution.

Well, the angles may dispute that, I guess.  

The book of Genesis involves a poetic folk tale which has little to do wth what God is actually capable of. It's simplification for a time that only understood simple things.

[Lusche]

  Abiogenesis is a different subject that relates to the creation of life

It's also a great track by Carbon Based Lifeforms: http://youtu.be/LoKt4vhJ-c0 

[mtnman]

Objectively you need a god ability for morality. Morality without a God worldview is nothing more than arbitrary mental aggression. Good and Bad, Right and Wrong are borrowed from a  ' theist' worldview.

Not true.

[NatCigg]

where is a scientist when you need one.

[Tank-Ace]

Not true.

Quite arguable, and it depends exactly what you mean by morality.

Personal morality can exist without god, thats absolutely true. But without some higher authority directing us, all morality becomes subjective, unless you want to play the "well it just is!" game. What do I care if a bunch of old farts in the government tell me aggravated assault is wrong? Who are they to tell me what I should and shouldn't do? They're no different than I am.

And if you follow certain hedonistic views of the world (the best life is the most pleasurable life, pleasure is the only thing that is inherently good for us, etc), you can make a pretty solid case for doing whatever the hell you want, assuming their is no god.

[GScholz]

Morality is relative. What one person finds moral another may find reprehensible. It is a continuing source of conflict and war.

[gyrene81]

wow, good to see other people jumping in...and no personal attacks (yet)

Also, if you assume an omniscient knows-all sees-all god, as is the main form present in Judaism, Christianity and Islam (excepting a handful of denominations/sects), that means God already knows what decisions you're going to make. So does that really make it free will?

for those that choose to believe yes, although the choices are limited. contrary to the doctrines of organized religions, there are always 3 choices, good, bad or indifferent, you are free to make the choice you want. even knowing what decisions we're going to make, the omniscient god uses our conscience (for lack of a better word) to guide us into making the good choice, but what decision we make is always up to us. for the purposes of organized religion, indifference is equal to bad, which in a sense is somewhat true, although it is subjective. there are always consequences to our decisions as well. and those consequences, whether immediate or delayed may not be to our liking.

Since this life is all there is we ought to make it as pleasant and good for as many people as we are able.

I don't need a supreme being threatening me with eternal torment to do the right thing.  I do the right thing because it is the right thing.

I don't justify people living in abject misery and want as being ok because they will be in a paradise nobody can demonstrate exists after they die.

that may very well be the case for you as it is for others. by choice, the life you have for as long as it lasts will be the life you get. it will be a self fullfilling prophecy, so to speak.

there is no supreme being threatening you with anything. all the hellfire and damnation pulpit talk is just to get you to bow down to whatever doctrine organized relgious sects want you to follow. whatever existence there is after your physical life is done will be what you earned. it cannot be auctioned, bargained for or bought. even a life of sainthood (by human standards) cannot change your destiny.

even those who have the most material wealth in the world can live in abject misery, just as there are people who live in complete poverty, yet their lives are filled with happiness. you have no idea what awaits them when their lives on the physical plane are done. with just your eyes, you cannot see the nucleus of an atom, nor can you see another planet 100 trillion light years away, yet just because other people have claimed they exist you have no trouble believing either exists without a personal demonstration. talk about an act of faith.

[FireDrgn]

That's a pretty tall claim man

Please explain how you get morality without a god ability.  You do realize you would have to be a moral authority right?

[Xtirp8r]

The hardest thing for me to see in evolution is the fact that there is nothing to live for.  In evolution you live for self die and that is the end of things.

A creationist lives for others and when he dies he has a reward to look forward to.

What a crock!

There are billions of people on this earth that don't believe in your skydaddy. Are you saying that none of them are living a worthy life?

Have a look at Eastern Philosophy. It's all about realising your life is interconnected with everyone else's.

And then you die.

You are here not because of some bloodthirsty creator (who shed the first blood in the Wholly Babble?) but because your parents had sexual intercourse.

I live a worthwhile life and my life has a positive impact on hundreds of other people.

Religion is just another way to separate me from you.

[gyrene81]

all it takes is one...sad really it was a good conversation.

I live a worthwhile life and my life has a positive impact on hundreds of other people.

with your attitude i seriously doubt that is true...

[mtnman]

Please explain how you get morality without a god ability.  You do realize you would have to be a moral authority right?

I'm not sure what you mean when you say I need to be a moral authority?  Do you mean I have to have written a book?

Morality is indeed possible without a god.  I admit, I was skeptical at first too (and that may easily have been because I was still active in the church at the time, so was following the ideas I'd been taught).  Lots and lots of religion- and ethics-oriented classes and studies showed me that it is indeed possible to have morals without religion.

"Man" is a social animal.  He/she NEEDS a healthy, strong society to ensure survival, and more importantly to ensure survival of their offspring. The 10 commandments are really nothing more than a good foundation for a healthy society (whether they come from god or not).  All societies follow those basic rules to some extent.  If they don't, the individuals end up tearing the society apart from the inside.  Individuals that do that are seen as a threat (acting immorally) and are controlled, in one form or another.

Society takes the place of the god authority.  And of course, society can be local, regional, or widespread (almost global, nowadays) and can be made up of many sub-societies.

If it comes down to success, survival, etc, society will alter its sense of morality (regardless of belief in god).

[NatCigg]

I would think I dont destroy society out of respect for my family, myself, and other people.  Not because Im afraid of what will happen after death.  Seriously, self serving beliefs in a imagined truth are just another means to help the individual understand life.