MK 108 experts, please help!

[Latrobe]

I am so far fed up with the MK 108 cannon that if that K4 wasn't such a beautifully powerful fighter then it would probably be the only 109 I never fly. Several years of trying to learn how this gun shoots has gotten me no where. I see it as the most inaccurate, unreliable, useless gun ever put on a plane, ever! If I could remove it from my K4 to save on weight and just use the 13mm's, I would do so in a heartbeat.

Yet, there are people who are basically gods with this gun. They look at a plane, lob a few rounds at it, and it explodes. Those same experts have said to put convergence at 350, and that's what I've done and I still can not hit a thing with it! I remember the one thread someone posted where you line up your shots with the canopy frame, but I simply can't do that because: 1- I lack that kind of coordination and suck at it, and 2- I use TrackIR now and it's almost impossible to do it with TrackIR.


SO! Can you tater gods take a look at this film and tell me exactly how I suck? I get 4 perfect shots on this F4U, all my 13mm's hit, 30mm's.... no where to be found, possibly fazed right through the plane.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/9434uuki4q55plx/tater+fails_0935.ahf






(Also, HTC why can't we attach film files in this section of the forums? Seems like a rather important section to have that for.)

[Blooz]

Obviously, you missed.

May I suggest a target the MK108 30mm was designed to engage?



The 109G14 with 20mm would be the better choice for taking on fighters. It's rate of fire is faster and it's trajectory is flatter.

But I'm sure you already knew these things.

[BaldEagl]

I know people will tell you to bring the 30mm in close but I have mine set at 650.

I learned the guns flying the 190A-8 buff hunting where I wanted to open fire at distance and that made the transition to the single 30mm on the K-4 easy for me.

What I like about the longer convergence on the K-4 is that the lob off the nose really helps me in crossing, snap and lead pursuit shots.

Somewhere around here I posted a screen shot from a scenario where I tag a P-38 at 1000 yards with the 190's 30mm's.  Perhaps try flying the A8, 152 or 262 for a while where you have a better chance of hitting to get used to the ballistics then move back over to the K-4 or 163 to put what you've learned to use.

Good luck.  The gun's a one hit killer.

Oops.. forgot; 152 also only has a single.

[LCADolby]

if you want to be good with the 30mm, never fire the 13mms at the same time.

[Muzzy]

If I may answer a question with a question...how did you get such a sharp break turn out of your K4 last night? I was the guy in the FM2.

That said, I used to fly the K4 regularly some years ago, but the only thing that ever worked was practice and more practice with the tater gun. Shoot at drones from every angle, go to the TA and check the target map and see where your bullets are landing, use the LCS in offline mode, etc. Basically I just took all my shots at 200 or less, then once I was comfortable with that, I began experimenting with longer shots and crossing shots. After a while, I could just do it. You have to be willing to miss a *LOT* to get used to the gun. Don't use the 13mm's...they only mess you up. Fire rounds just to see where the shells go in combat. Lead LONG....way longer than you're used to.

That's pretty much all I got. Maybe I'll get back in that bird and give it another go myself.

[Muzzy]

Also, based on the film, you're firing way too late for the taters. You need to fire when he's in the side or top window from your front view. If you fire a crossing shot when he's in your front view you will miss unless you're right on top of him. Experiment with that until you find your timing.

[Latrobe]

The 109G14 with 20mm would be the better choice for taking on fighters. It's rate of fire is faster and it's trajectory is flatter.

I absolutely love the G14 because of the option to toss that crappy MK 108 out and put in the super lovely MG 151/20! I really should fly it more than I do.

if you want to be good with the 30mm, never fire the 13mms at the same time.

Why is that? I hear a few people say they do it because they want to see where their rounds are going, but that's with tracers on and I fly with tracers off. Does it really matter if I shoot with 13mms? Is there some hidden secret that the 13mms somehow affect the 30mms aim?

If I may answer a question with a question...how did you get such a sharp break turn out of your K4 last night? I was the guy in the FM2.

I think you're talking about when you pass under me from my left to right. What I did was pull up, dropped some flaps, chopped throttle to almost 0, and stood on my right rudder. The 109s are very good at just pulling right around this way, but it bleeds lots of E.

I hear lead is the biggest problem in the K4 all the time. In the film I am actually leading the plane more than I would normally be if I was in any other plane. The first shot for example he is inside 200 yards away from me. I pull enough lead that he disappears under my nose and my 13mm's hit around his canopy and left wing. Where did my 30mm's go? Even with 350 convergence did they just drop straight off under him? Did they just never reach the target? How much more lead am I suppose to pull on this cannon?

[Vudu15]

I've known that I'm terrible with the 108 a thus wont shoot until I'm less than 300 with well set angles. Under 250 I've shot it much like the 109E's slower 20mms and found that they work ok for me. Also most of the times I fly the K4 is to shoot buffs and at this role one it was meant to preform its great.

[morfiend]

 Latrobe,

 I'm one of the worse shots in the game so I seldom comment on this topic but you said that you"hear" lead is the biggest problem with the K4. I would argue that the dispersion cone of the Mk108 30mm is the biggest problem.

  IIRC Bustr told me the 30 mm has a dispersion of about 40ft at 400 yds or very close to that,so you could have the lead perfect but still miss your target because of dispersion.

  If you want to get an idea of how much there is,us the dot target command offline with a ammo multi of 10x and just fire the 30mm at the target at 400 yds. You could use 500 and or 300 to compare to see the differences but it isn't until you pull the target in to around 150 yds that you will see a reasonable dispersion.


  That being said I would try to setup crossing shots at close range,less than 200 yds and hope I have a good planform to aim at. I would tend to start to shoot as the enemy is starting to get behind the front cockpit bracing,trying to fire a 3 shot burst.


  ymmv.



   

[Latrobe]

I do know about the dispersion problem of the Mk 108, I should have added that as well. I've done the testing offline with the target, that's why I never shoot unless I'm inside 400 yards. I might push it a little if they're just inside or outside that range, but for the most part I pull the trigger only when I'm at risk of colliding with them.

Here's a screenshot from earlier today of how I typically shoot in the K4.




Little more info on this shot: I was cruising in at 387mph, the A8 was at 210. This is the exact moment I pulled the trigger, and I nearly flew into his tail I was so close. I even pushed down slightly on the stick in order to get a few more shots into his which is why I nearly rammed into him. I get 13mm hits from nose to tail and yet the 30mm still fails to connect. How much closer and I suppose to get!? How much more lead is require?

[JOACH1M]

30mm is the best gun in ah

[Muzzy]

Seriously. Stop shooting with the 13mm's. You need to see where your taters are going before you can correct.

[Latrobe]

Seriously. Stop shooting with the 13mm's. You need to see where your taters are going before you can correct.

But I don't fly with tracers on to begin with. 

[Tinkles]

But I don't fly with tracers on to begin with. 

Recently started flying with the K4, and as Teacher told me (as I'm well aware that you know) "The 30mm on the K4 is akin to that of a child throwing  a rock".

I normally don't fire it unless within 200 yards if going too fast. But I sort of have a nature feel for it at 300ish range. I would post screenies, but my computer throws a fit if I open aces high (says it isn't working  )


IIRC someone saying in one of the posts I read, "If you are shooting with your 303s you're missing with your 20mms (talking about spits)"    From what I can tell, in your screenshot, I would say if you aimed slightly higher, you would've nailed either the nose or right under the pilot seat, depending on when it hit.    Hard for me to explain without screenshots, for me it's a natural feel.

 

[Muzzy]

But I don't fly with tracers on to begin with. 

Oh.  Well, you might want to try turning tracers on and watching where the shells go. It might help give you a better idea of where to shoot.