Author Topic: A6M & How to Bait Your Enemy  (Read 2731 times)

Offline bozon

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Re: A6M & How to Bait Your Enemy
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2013, 08:08:15 AM »
I remember fighting like 15 cons in one  :rofl friggen hilarious.....they couldn't get me at all...went for what seemed like an hour, finely got me, of course someone had to call cheat...another guy said, all he saw was hard rudder use :rofl :rofl :rofl
The slow turny planes are more survivable in a gang bang than the speedy planes. Speed will not help you if they got you slow enough to force you to maneuver. In the high wingloaded planes, if you are defeated - you are defeated. In a low wingloaded plane you can still go nuts and spoil the shot for the one behind you, but you will never get away from him unless you kill him or he runs out of ammo.

On the opposing force, the art of gang does require a tiny bit of skill. It drives me nuts as I circle above and see 5 greenies fly around a red plane for minutes unable to kill it. So I dive down and put it out of its misery, provided I do not collide with him...

This is how it works:
Usually, the whole gang race each other for the kill, all get in behind the zeke and all get denied by a single break turn. Rinse & repeat. A smarter pilot watches and time his attack from a different direction - He should come at the zeke with lots of speed from the front quarter and time it to reach the zeke after the gang has made their attack. Timing is done by placing the zeke at an angle off the nose to delay the attack by a few seconds if needed, then a quick roll & jink to place him in the gunsight. The break turn will expose the zeke's belly and he is completely blind to the attacker, especially since he is busy laughing and watching those behind fall outside his turn. If he continues the turn (all likelihood), the attacker will get a belly shot, a dead 6 shot and then a top plane shot. Usually at least 2 out of the 3 depending on his timing. The turny planes are usually not fast enough in the roll to confuse such an attacker even if they could see him through the belly or extrapolate his course from the last time they saw him.

Some turny planes like to make a 90 degree break turn and then go up and roll after their previous attackers. This will still give the attacker described above enough time to figure out the move, pull a vertical lead and blast the zeke. If the timing was right, the attacker will catch the zeke during the roll in the vertical, when the zeke exposes its full plane to be shot.

Be smart and beat the gang to their prey  :t

Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline bozon

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Re: A6M & How to Bait Your Enemy
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2013, 08:11:43 AM »
I find the most difficult planes to fight against when they are defensive are the Brewsters. They seem to have a very fast roll rate (is that accurate historically?) and take a lot of punishment. I had several times in which I flew through, covering them with hit sprites (20 mm) only to come out the other side and find them flying after me with all important pieces still attached. I thought ours were supposed to be the Finn Brewsters with no armor. How they survive a point-blanc mosquito quad 20mm volley is beyond me. Once would be a glitch, but I consistently find them more durable than most planes. Must be made from the same no-armor material as the Yak-3s.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline ink

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Re: A6M & How to Bait Your Enemy
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2013, 09:52:50 AM »
The slow turny planes are more survivable in a gang bang than the speedy planes. Speed will not help you if they got you slow enough to force you to maneuver. In the high wingloaded planes, if you are defeated - you are defeated. In a low wingloaded plane you can still go nuts and spoil the shot for the one behind you, but you will never get away from him unless you kill him or he runs out of ammo.

On the opposing force, the art of gang does require a tiny bit of skill. It drives me nuts as I circle above and see 5 greenies fly around a red plane for minutes unable to kill it. So I dive down and put it out of its misery, provided I do not collide with him...

This is how it works:
Usually, the whole gang race each other for the kill, all get in behind the zeke and all get denied by a single break turn. Rinse & repeat. A smarter pilot watches and time his attack from a different direction - He should come at the zeke with lots of speed from the front quarter and time it to reach the zeke after the gang has made their attack. Timing is done by placing the zeke at an angle off the nose to delay the attack by a few seconds if needed, then a quick roll & jink to place him in the gunsight. The break turn will expose the zeke's belly and he is completely blind to the attacker, especially since he is busy laughing and watching those behind fall outside his turn. If he continues the turn (all likelihood), the attacker will get a belly shot, a dead 6 shot and then a top plane shot. Usually at least 2 out of the 3 depending on his timing. The turny planes are usually not fast enough in the roll to confuse such an attacker even if they could see him through the belly or extrapolate his course from the last time they saw him.

Some turny planes like to make a 90 degree break turn and then go up and roll after their previous attackers. This will still give the attacker described above enough time to figure out the move, pull a vertical lead and blast the zeke. If the timing was right, the attacker will catch the zeke during the roll in the vertical, when the zeke exposes its full plane to be shot.

Be smart and beat the gang to their prey  :t



sorry bud you lost me at..."The slow turny planes are more survivable in a gang bang than the speedy planes"

which is completely incorrect.

if that were the case, then they would have been making even more "turnier" planes as the war progressed....but no thats not the case....speed=life....simple as that, to think otherwise is silly.


and I try very hard NOT to fly with the gang. :aok
 

Offline bozon

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Re: A6M & How to Bait Your Enemy
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2013, 10:57:36 AM »
No, they made the planes faster in order to avoid the gang altogether. However, if you do get caught and can't dive away, a Zeke has a better chance than a p51 in one vs many.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline mthrockmor

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Re: A6M & How to Bait Your Enemy
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2013, 11:16:48 AM »
Slidinghorn is just outside of being a 2-weeker?! Awesome newby discussion!! (Need more "newbs" like this.)

One of my all-time heros is Capt David McCampbell. In his famous book "McCampbell's heros" where he discusses the story of Fabled 15 off of the USS Essex, where he got his kills to include 9 in one sortie, he describes the most amazing encounter.

On one occassion, somewhere in 1944 after the Turkey Shoot (if I remember correctly) a division of Hellcats (he was not among them) came across a single, early version Zero. The 4-F6Fs pounced and after a long dance, not a single bullet hole in the zero. They run out of gas and time and the zero flys home. They note that it must have been flown by one of the remaining true old school vets left in the Japanese war machine.

Clearly the Zero handled properly is a major threat to mid- and late-war birds. Just has to be flown right.

boo
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George "Blood n Guts" Patton

Offline Karnak

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Re: A6M & How to Bait Your Enemy
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2013, 11:42:06 AM »
No, they made the planes faster in order to avoid the gang altogether. However, if you do get caught and can't dive away, a Zeke has a better chance than a p51 in one vs many.
Yup, a low and slow P-51 is a dead plane flying if enemies are close to it whereas a low and slow A6M3 is still fighting back.
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Offline ink

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Re: A6M & How to Bait Your Enemy
« Reply #36 on: December 25, 2013, 12:01:42 AM »
I see what you are saying..... I guess.................. :confused:

except "getting caught low and slow" by the gang in anything you are dead..... :rolleyes:.......

fighting a true gang 5 or more vs 1...(how many of you guys actually do this...regular like... ;)....

no one will ever be able to convince me a turny bird has a better chance.....unless we are talking the latewar spitfire

I have fought the gang consistently for 7 years...I NEVER Bomb....I NEVER GV......its pretty much all I have done...

the faster plane always has a better chance of survival IMO

check out the K/D tallies I would bet my bottom dollar all the highest are the speed demons. Typhy...P51..262....190....

Offline bozon

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Re: A6M & How to Bait Your Enemy
« Reply #37 on: December 25, 2013, 02:40:19 AM »
Ink/jetsum I think we are talking about different things.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline Wmaker

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Re: A6M & How to Bait Your Enemy
« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2013, 06:31:49 AM »
Getting caught/surprised by a slow, more maneuverable plane in a much faster fighter is already massive, massive fail by the pilot. Oh dear the injustice if that situation leads to getting shot down...
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Offline Debrody

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Re: A6M & How to Bait Your Enemy
« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2013, 06:43:20 AM »
Zeeks are very much one-dimensional: force the opponent into a turnfight, if he cant run, he loses, you can be any poor, he can be any good, no matter what, he loses in 20 seconds to a very simple flat turn. All about SA because this aircraft does all the ACMs as quickly, the others dont have a chance to recover.
Same with the spits - but even more, they are fast too...
The Ki-84 at least requires some brain-usage to make it work well.

Felt much better in the 190, even though many were "trying" to run their pu$$tangs from this one too. lol. Winning a turnfight was actually a challenge, some more fun. Couldnt do anything and still win against anything.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2013, 06:45:29 AM by Debrody »
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Offline Lusche

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Re: A6M & How to Bait Your Enemy
« Reply #40 on: December 25, 2013, 06:52:01 AM »
check out the K/D tallies I would bet my bottom dollar all the highest are the speed demons. Typhy...P51..262....190....


Absolutely. Checking this years a2a K/Ds, the top 20 is almost exclusively made up with planes that are much better at "flying straight" and keeping their E than wild turning (the only 'true' TnB plane in that list being the Ki-84 at #16 currently).
And the constantly lamented "overmodeled" Brewster is actually one of the biggest victims in the MA ;)
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Offline Karnak

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Re: A6M & How to Bait Your Enemy
« Reply #41 on: December 25, 2013, 10:54:37 AM »
The challenge in the A6M is SA.
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Offline Debrody

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Re: A6M & How to Bait Your Enemy
« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2013, 11:38:05 AM »
The challenge in the A6M is SA.
Figured. Never been interested in that. Maybe thats why i have never liked flying theese planes. Sorry for the off.
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: A6M & How to Bait Your Enemy
« Reply #43 on: December 25, 2013, 03:07:57 PM »
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: A6M & How to Bait Your Enemy
« Reply #44 on: December 25, 2013, 03:46:42 PM »
The slow turny planes are more survivable in a gang bang than the speedy planes. Speed will not help you if they got you slow enough to force you to maneuver. In the high wingloaded planes, if you are defeated - you are defeated. In a lo.w wingloaded plane you can still go nuts and spoil the shot for the one behind you, but you will never get away from him unless you kill him or he runs out of ammo.

SA and thinking about stuff definately helps.  :)

Thinking and observing can be challenging...
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