Flaps usage in real combat

[bozon]

P.s. sorry about the miss spell earlier mostly doing this from mobile devices while in transit so that will happen.
My Apologies.

I am familiar with the horrors of typing on a smartphone. I do not have the thumbs of a teenage girl, yet I still attempt it on long boring train rides.

Only point I was trying to convey is that HTC do not like to make stuff up. When they cannot simulate something physically in an accurate enough fashion, they seem to prefer to enforce the operational regulations from an official source. Still, I am sure that here and there some info was missing and they had to interpolate or even extrapolate a bit.

The only way to get something changed is to find an official document that states otherwise.

[Brooke]

and I thought POH had something to do with OH ions. Silly me.

Phosphorus hydroxide -- the essential compound for aircraft operation. 

(And Bonzon is an awesome guy!)

[Brooke]

However you are the one making the presumptions about how they went about the test.  Presuming they flew around slow in order to drop their flaps before they sped up to stall speed at 2 g in a combat capability evaluation, that is quite an presumption.  Speed is life being what it is and all.  I really do think you have trouble understanding what people were doing, and why.

I'm not making any presumptions at all -- that's my point.  It doesn't say what speed they deployed flaps at.  You are making many presumptions when you conclude that flaps were deployed above 180 mph.

[Brent Haliday]

I'm not making any presumptions at all -- that's my point.  It doesn't say what speed they deployed flaps at.  You are making many presumptions when you conclude that flaps were deployed above 180 mph.

Yea I am presuming for a test pilot to report that, the 2g maneuver stall that usually occurs at 180 can be delayed until the airspeed drops to 140, he musts have had to deploy the maneuver flaps before he stalled at 180 at 2g.

I am also presuming that if X x Y = Z then <X must be multiplied by >Y to = Z

Call me crazy.

Done leading horses, you fellas drink if you have a mind to refresh yourselves.

[Brooke]

Yea I am presuming for a test pilot to report that, the 2g maneuver stall that usually occurs at 180 can be delayed until the airspeed drops to 140, he musts have had to deploy the maneuver flaps before he stalled at 180 at 2g.

I wouldn't make that presumption.  We're talking about min speed for pulling 2 g's here.  If I were trying to determine that in AH aircraft, I would not be flying around at a constant 2 g's while messing with flaps, power, airspeed, my turn, etc.  I would get the plane near the condition I wanted, get flaps out, then go into a 2 g turn, slowing until it stalls, noting where it stalls.  This process says almost nothing of what speed I deploy flaps at.

I am also presuming that if X x Y = Z then <X must be multiplied by >Y to = Z

I suggest something more like this:
http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/aces_high/stallSpeedMath/stallSpeedMath.html

[mtnman]

Done leading horses, you fellas drink if you have a mind to refresh yourselves.

So produce some data...

You haven't "lead" a dang thing yet, let alone horses.

You may have a valid point, and I for one would love to see all of the planes (including the 190) modeled as accurately as possible. 

However, rather than coming across as presenting valid information/data, you're coming across as a whining know-it-all.  You present nothing objective, and then resort to finger-pointing and what essentially amounts to name calling when nobody bows down to your incomplete, unsubstantial information.  Worse yet, you appear to be asking everyone else to prove your point for you.

Nice of you to give these folks permission to drink!  But, I think you're taking far too much credit, if you think you've lead anyone to the water, lol.

Produce some data!  Get the adjustments you think are warranted!  We'd all like to see that happen.

FYI, the car performance manual vs real life performance isn't an apples -to-apples comparison, since I presume the real car is still available for real-life testing/verification?  And I bet they're comparatively cheap, and available, and some pretty hard core testing could be safely performed and therefore factually modeled?  Manual or not?  That's not the case with the aircraft in question, so the analogy doesn't hold water (not even enough to sip).

[J.A.W.]

From 'Too Young to Die',  a Kiwi Corsair pilot's memoir..

[P.233] Relating to the thread topic, while flying in Japan, on occupation duties..

"Whilst on patrol, we frequently engaged in dogfights with Australian Mustangs & found that
the Corsair had superior manoeuvrability, particularly if we employed the manoeuvring flap
setting of up to 20`which could be applied at up to 175 knots.
Under these conditions, as we tightened the turns the Mustangs would eventually flick out
& we had no trouble keeping behind them."

He adds, [P.324] Re Mustang vs Corsair..

"... - the similarity in performance was surprising, considering that the aircraft were completely the opposite in construction, although together they represented the cream of American design.
The 5-bladed 2,000hp Griffon-engine Spitfires which frequently visited our base had however
considerably higher performance than either the Mustang or Corsair..."

&,

"When pilots of the Indian Spitfire Squadron performed aerobatics overhead, the incredible performance, & the deafening screech of the Griffon, was almost frightening."

[Brooke]

Sounds like that corresponds with how things are in AH.

[Ardy123]

yeah, sounds about right.... I think in terms of a pure dog fighter, the spits were the best in the world. The mustang had the range that a spit could only dream of but it was no spit.

[bustr]

After watching the Bf109 flap actuation film visa muscle power. Was lowering the Bf109 flaps then depended on the speed at which the pilot was strong enough to achieve some pivot movement with the wheel?

So who's state of fitness is Hitech modeling? Da Terminator's or Billy Gates?

[BluBerry]

After watching the Bf109 flap actuation film visa muscle power. Was lowering the Bf109 flaps then depended on the speed at which the pilot was strong enough to achieve some pivot movement with the wheel?

So who's state of fitness is Hitech modeling? Da Terminator's or Billy Gates?

Hydraulic state of fitness

[Wiley]

After watching the Bf109 flap actuation film visa muscle power. Was lowering the Bf109 flaps then depended on the speed at which the pilot was strong enough to achieve some pivot movement with the wheel?

So who's state of fitness is Hitech modeling? Da Terminator's or Billy Gates?

Based on how it's possible to trim out of dives in some planes, I would expect our pilots to have trouble fitting into many cockpits due to muscle mass.

Wiley.

[FLS]

Based on how it's possible to trim out of dives in some planes, I would expect our pilots to have trouble fitting into many cockpits due to muscle mass.

Wiley.

Trim is relatively easy to adjust. I expect the flap crank was geared so it was easy to turn also, that's why it took so many turns.

[Wiley]

Trim is relatively easy to adjust. I expect the flap crank was geared so it was easy to turn also, that's why it took so many turns.

Wasn't really referring to the ability to adjust the trim, I was thinking more in terms of the anecdotes I've read in passing where a P38 or P47 pilot was referring to the control stick feeling like it was set in concrete when trying to pull out of an overspeed dive.  It's possible to do in game though it takes a while.  The stick pulling is what made me think the pilot guy in game must be pretty beefy.

Wiley.

[LCADolby]

AcesHigh doesn't properly model trim tabs.