Just have to say

[SkyRock]

the left paddle in pong was way over modelled 

[YamaRaja]

Was that a server-based game (the server made all the calculations and kept track of everyone all the time), or was it a client-based game like AH (the server only acts as an in-between and all the calculations of where you are is done on your own computer and passed along by the server to everyone else around you)?

Have you ever seen guys take off or land on a carrier, but they were 50' or more away from the carrier deck? Same thing there as with the collision model. On their computer, they trapped the 3 wire for a safe landing - on your computer they are hovering in mid-air off to the side of the ship.

Yes it was a server based game. This explains a lot.
This is why players can induce lag intentionally and get away with it also, not that anyone would do something like that. (with a switch built from Radio Shack parts easily)
This also is why lag is such an issue in AH.
It does take much less server power and bandwidth to run a game this way = cheaper to produce. More cost effective although much more subject to latency between players.

With a server based game you can hold latency tolerances much tighter. The way AH works if you tried to tighten that up it would disconnect to many players ( which is what we did to players with to high a latency).

Truth is if I wasnt so "into it" (with the Track Ir on it almost seems like I'm inside the game).
Then it wouldn't matter.
I dont really try for score but seem to end up in the top 50 every month anymore.
I take my combat seriously I guess.

Now I get it with the design of the game its as good as its gonna get.


   

[Scca]

Yes it was a server based game. This explains a lot.
This is why players can induce lag intentionally and get away with it also, not that anyone would do something like that. (with a switch built from Radio Shack parts easily)
This also is why lag is such an issue in AH.
It does take much less server power and bandwidth to run a game this way = cheaper to produce. More cost effective although much more subject to latency between players.

With a server based game you can hold latency tolerances much tighter. The way AH works if you tried to tighten that up it would disconnect to many players ( which is what we did to players with to high a latency).

Truth is if I wasnt so "into it" (with the Track Ir on it almost seems like I'm inside the game).
Then it wouldn't matter.
I dont really try for score but seem to end up in the top 50 every month anymore.
I take my combat seriously I guess.

Now I get it with the design of the game its as good as its gonna get.

Okay, all that said, given that you are in control of damage you take from collisions (i.e. don't hit stuff, and you won't take damage), what is the advantage to you if it was a server based vs. client based?  IMHO, knowing that the other guy may not take damage if I run into them decreases my inclination to ram them.  In other words, if I knew I would damage the C47 getting ready to drop troops, I would ram them.  Knowing I will 100% take damage, and they likely won't makes me work harder to get the shot. 

See where I am going with this?  I say advantage client based game...

[morfiend]

Yes it was a server based game. This explains a lot.
This is why players can induce lag intentionally and get away with it also, not that anyone would do something like that. (with a switch built from Radio Shack parts easily)
This also is why lag is such an issue in AH.



   

  This is complete BS,it's the same as saying the player is a cable puller....


   I suggest you try it yourself and see what exactly happens because if I told you that al that would happen is AH would shut down you wouldnt believe me.

  Have you ever gotten the message"lost TCP switching to UDP"? This happens when packet loss is exsessive and a last resort before you loose connection to AH,often after you receive this message you loose conection anyways and get kicked to your desktop.

  If you tried your socalled "switch" you would get the same result!

  AS to packet loss,this cant be blamed on HTC either,run pingplot to see how many hops you have and where the packets are being dropped,I bet you wont find it on HTC's end at all.

  Lag is just a fact of physics,it takes time for the signal to run around on the internet and until we can transfer information faster than the speed of light,it always will be.

  I've played "other" games like you mentioned and it's relatively easy to track 16 players,now multiply that by 20 or 30 times and use a map the same size and then tell me those other games dont have issues.... Ha they wouldnt even run but hey HTC's games all messed up because I dont understand how all this works so it's just easy for me to blame the game......



     

 PS: I usually stay out of these type of things but I have to deal with the fallout of players saying stuff that just isnt true.

[Golden Dragon]

Thanks for the explanations of collision models.  I noticed an awful lot of comments about collisions and then the other guy flying away unharmed.  That's certainly not my experience.  If I happen to be the plane flying away I'm usually anything but unscathed and looking for the nearest airfield to land.

[YamaRaja]

Fighter Ace was not a pier to pier game. With only 16 players.
It was a MMOLG, with 1000 people online in its heyday at Microsoft.
Arenas with 400 to 500 players were common.

"the switch" is a momentary button, they work.

You I guess didnt get the part that I worked on the game. As such I have a bit of an understanding as to what is possible.
As well as the limitations.
As to hops, nodes between net backbone carriers etc. Yea I know about those to.
I used to troubleshoot it for players with issues.

As I said initially, I expected a flak run thru a barrage of puffy ack

[bustr]

  This is complete BS,it's the same as saying the player is a cable puller....


   I suggest you try it yourself and see what exactly happens because if I told you that al that would happen is AH would shut down you wouldnt believe me.

  Have you ever gotten the message"lost TCP switching to UDP"? This happens when packet loss is exsessive and a last resort before you loose connection to AH,often after you receive this message you loose conection anyways and get kicked to your desktop.

  If you tried your socalled "switch" you would get the same result!

  AS to packet loss,this cant be blamed on HTC either,run pingplot to see how many hops you have and where the packets are being dropped,I bet you wont find it on HTC's end at all.

  Lag is just a fact of physics,it takes time for the signal to run around on the internet and until we can transfer information faster than the speed of light,it always will be.

  I've played "other" games like you mentioned and it's relatively easy to track 16 players,now multiply that by 20 or 30 times and use a map the same size and then tell me those other games dont have issues.... Ha they wouldnt even run but hey HTC's games all messed up because I dont understand how all this works so it's just easy for me to blame the game......



     

 PS: I usually stay out of these type of things but I have to deal with the fallout of players saying stuff that just isnt true.

Morph,

Thanks I've been too lazy to build one just to see if it timed out your connection by letting my squad mates shoot at me in the DA. ATT on my end is messing with my stream though because the wife got me a SONY Blue Ray BX510 and I've been watching a lot of free movies since Thanksgiving. I have to reboot the router to get a new IP sometimes before playing the game. Once I started watching free movies my hop addresses changed to the game server even if my connection is still 60-85 average. The new ATT address in my route now spikes with periodicity up to 200. If I reboot my router, I don't get that hop until I start watching movies again. ATT must not like I'm not subscribing to their movie network.

What bothers me, and I haven't tested it, is internal system lag inducing apps from a hotkey. I've seen one out there being talked about and the creator's web sight now admits most people are downloading it for their FPS games. It was originally a networking tool to induce latency to test PC on networks. Will the results be the same to your game connection as a physical lag switch if you can chug your system out on demand? If the game is client based processing but, Internet lag will time out your persistent connection. Then it doesn't matter where the lag is introduced? Your PC bogged down on purpose, a physical lag switch, or your fugulated by ATT internet connection.

Sometimes a player will seem impervious to damage while being able to damage everyone of us chasing him around. When that occurs, you hear the players involved asking each other if they all experienced the same results on their end when they unloaded half their rounds into that player's fighter. Last night drano, I, and another player went through this to finally shoot down a Ki84. Each of us from our monitors saw our rounds lighting that Ki84 up with very little happening. We were comparing notes on it as we took damage from him every time he passed by and how many rounds we were pouring into him with bright sprites to very little effect. He was never micro warping like a laggy connection hallmarks. Eventually he went down with us expending enough rounds to have knocked down another 5 planes between us. His ACM sucked, and we all reported good hit sprites on him to each other down to the end.

Over the years I suspect this is the scenario repeating itself that causes most of the accusations of dweebery. With out the obvious warps from a laggy connection in front of multiple witnesses. What accounts for the con's apparent imperviousness that seems like almost none of the hit sprites seen from our side are being received by his game client? If I remember from a few years back, hit packets are transmitted by TCP and not UDP to make sure they do get there.

[ink]

Ki84's can absorb a huge amount of damage and continue on 

[BluBerry]

Thanks I've been too lazy to build one

Build one? Sir thats old school, modern day lag switching or lag hacking is done with simple computer programs.

[bustr]

Only if it's 1000lb's of paintballs.

We were lighting this guy up point blank while reading the kanji note on his pilot relief tube vent that says:

Don't suck on, don't look in, or place fingers in this smelly hole.

Everyone runs into one like this and the conversation on range goes about the same each time over the last decade or so.

Blu,

Color me old school curious to know if it's me or him ruining my night........

Hey BluBerry did you ever do a peace sign gunsight or a Happy Face gunsight? One of my squad mates was trying to talk me into making them. I don't hold a candle to your John Wayne rendering skills. My biggest concession to visual effects was those dots I posted.......

[BluBerry]

Hey BluBerry did you ever do a peace sign gunsight or a Happy Face gunsight?

Never did but I can if he still needs it. 

 

[bustr]

If you can, it would appeal to his Washington state wood burning stove, old school Grateful Dead kinda heart.

He's never asked me for a gunsight before with all the historic packs and other kinds I've posted at the POTW members forum. I could not do justice to your style of overlay effects.

[BluBerry]

If you can, it would appeal to his Washington state wood burning stove, old school Grateful Dead.

I'm in Washington state.. I know his type very well...

[Tank-Ace]

I'm in Washington state.. I know his type very well...

(Image removed from quote.)

I'm so very sorry for you. I only had to deal with that crap for 5 years before I escaped away to college.

[RotBaron]

The only part that I still think about after quite a bit of thought is when you get the collision from a ftr attacking your bombers as he flew too close to you on your end but not on his end. In this example you're the bomber and have no way to evade how close he gets to you, but he doesn't see that, you get the damage yet you had no way to control it. Some ppl call this ramming, I know it is not, I know that if he actually intentionally tried to ram you and succeeded there would be damage on his end.

What I'm saying is, of course if you see damage on your end when a ftr comes in too close, you get the damage. But should you get the damage? There is no way for you to avoid what he's doing, while in the gunners position, you can't control the elevators and attempt to cause him not to collide with you. If I've overlooked something like a way this could be exploited, which is quite possible, since I have given it "quite" a bit of thought, but not a thorough study of, then maybe you should get the damage. Of course in real life you would get the damage if you saw it, regardless, but what I'm asking is, would there be a reason/exploit if HTC were to remove code where bombers get damage from ftrs colliding from near direct 6'oclock? - IF both don't collide.   <---this because if both collide, of course both should get damage as in rl.

Although this above doesn't happen a lot, it does happen enough. A rough estimation over the past 16months is 1:15 sorties. That ratio could be a bit higher, and if lower, not by much.

If I've missed an obvious way to abuse removing the coding for this, it wasn't intentional to gas on any fires here...