Author Topic: Air Combat Question  (Read 2396 times)

Offline earl1937

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2290
Air Combat Question
« on: January 11, 2014, 10:45:51 AM »
 :airplane: Really curious about what you guys would do in this situation! I am in a 51D, with about 40% fuel left, slight climbing attitude, about 200FPM, and I notice a 190D9 about 2 K behind me. I engage wep, look back and he is now still about 2k back. After about 3 or 4 mins in this config, he is now down to 1.75K and is becoming more apparent that I am going to have to engage this guy, or set there and let him kill me. I only have about 260 rounds of ammo left, so what ever I do, its got be good.
Now the question: What should I do to prevail over this guy?
Blue Skies and wind at my back and wish that for all!!!

Offline pipz

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4899
Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2014, 11:42:20 AM »
"A bandit on your six is better than no bandit at all"  :old:  :aok

Kill him!  :D
Silence tells me secretly everything.
                                                                     
Montreal! Free the Pitt Bulls!!!!!

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2014, 12:06:58 PM »
What altitude are you at?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline SirNuke

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1297
Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2014, 12:09:54 PM »
make good use of your flaps and try to get into a turn contest with him. Warning tho he has more excess power than you do.

Preferably if he's on my 6 I would like to start merging with him before 3K distance so I don't feel the penality for turning into him to much

Offline earl1937

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2290
Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2014, 12:12:23 PM »
 :airplane:
What altitude are you at?
:airplane: Sorry, was in a hurry and left out a couple of important items! Passing through 6500AGL, and IAS of 270/decreasing and when I noticed the bad guy, went level, engaged wep and accelerated to about 300IAS, then noticed he had closed to 1.75K distance.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 12:14:56 PM by earl1937 »
Blue Skies and wind at my back and wish that for all!!!

Offline Randy1

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4301
Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2014, 12:14:27 PM »
I would turn towards him while pushing my nose down for speed in prep for the first merge.  If he has the lead turn then shoot past him with full throttle to reset your position something the mustang is about the best.

Offline pipz

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4899
Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2014, 12:19:47 PM »
While he was farther out I may have done a low G pull up and zoom up, reverse at the top and head back at him. Merge would prolly be me nose down and him nose up.

Or I may turn around going nose low, low G and either merge with him or set it up to try for an overshoot.

Or you could let him slowly crawl up your butt and then go for an overshoot.

Tally Ho!!!!
Silence tells me secretly everything.
                                                                     
Montreal! Free the Pitt Bulls!!!!!

Offline earl1937

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2290
Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2014, 12:20:32 PM »
I would turn towards him while pushing my nose down for speed in prep for the first merge.  If he has the lead turn then shoot past him with full throttle to reset your position something the mustang is about the best.
:airplane: Gosh, been through this setup so many times in this game! I have turned into the guy, with nose down for speed, then he just split "S" on me as quick as a cat on a June bug, as I pass under him. I have tried going vertical, with a hammer head turn at top, hoping to get a "ho" on the way down, he turns off and I over shoot trying follow him.
Blue Skies and wind at my back and wish that for all!!!

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2014, 12:46:13 PM »
You're in a bad way then; at 6500 ft the Dora holds all the cards. You've also spent most of your WEP while he still has 5+ minutes. When your WEP runs out you'll be at an almost insurmountable disadvantage. Most people expect a Pony to run, (and you tried to do just that). By studying the performance charts on the HTC site you should have known you can't outrun a Dora below 10k ft. Unless you have friends nearby that you could run to for help you should have turned into him immediately after you spotted him and merged. Being aggressive even from a disadvantage can rattle the enemy and throw him off his game. However in that situation, if the Dora pilot is a good stick, your chances aren't great without outside intervention.



"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline mthrockmor

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2649
Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2014, 12:59:48 PM »
I fly 190s almost exclusively, and it is rare that a PonyD worries me. In fact, I relish a good 1v1 against a PonyD. The reason is not because the 190 is better than the PonyD in an overall 1v1 fight, it is because I know how to fight the 190 and most sticks have no clue how to fight the PonyD.

I would keep my speed high, pull a soft-G turn towards him, he'll close rapidly and then when he gets to 600m pull hard and drop two notches of flaps. No way he can turn with you and 99% chance he won't get a good snap shot. The moment he passes through, pull your flaps, flatten out and retain as much E as possible. You've got him to overshoot, now see what he does.

- If he goes verticle, watch where he goes and work for a couple more overshoots like I described. A few of those and you will end up on the deck, neutral speed and ready for a good 1v1 stall fight, which you should win.

- If he blows through, go into a good steady climb, work for altitude and head back to where you need to go. He'll run and you can't catch him.

- He may blow through, go out 4k and reset for another pass. This is why you grab for more alt. If he comes through again you may even have an alt advantage.

- If per chance he tries to slow down and turn with you on the first pass, you may have run into Pervert (in which case your SOL) or a noob who doesn't know any better. You are in danger until you get him to overshoot. Tight turns with two notches of flaps and he'll fall out pretty quickly. You can't roll/reverse with a 190 though use rudder to improve roll rate. The 190 will outroll you though in a rolling scissors you'll out turn the 190. Within two or three turns you'll be neutral and pushing the advantage.

A trick I've found with the PonyD is the speed climb. Set your speed climb to 260knts. At that speed you will climb at 2k/min and by 10k you'll be doing 300kts actual. That is plenty of speed to manuever and, if I am not mistaken, not on a Dora/K4/Tempest, etc can speed climb 260kts with a PonyD. They can go that fast, just not climb 2k/min while doing it. I love that feature of the PonyD.

My two overrated cents.

boo
No poor dumb bastard wins a war by dying for his country, he wins by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his.
George "Blood n Guts" Patton

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2014, 01:20:31 PM »
Unfortunately for the Pony, below 10k the Dora will out climb the Pony at any speed. Also between 13k and 21k.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline mthrockmor

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2649
Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2014, 01:39:30 PM »
Scholz, we should test that. I've done the same thing in a Dora and it does not climb at 2k/min, around 1.5k/min.
No poor dumb bastard wins a war by dying for his country, he wins by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his.
George "Blood n Guts" Patton

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2014, 02:02:01 PM »
It should be physically impossible. At those altitude bands the Dora has spare power to climb even at the Pony's max level speed. It also handily out climbs the Pony at low speed. At no point in the speed curve below max level speed for the Pony and best climb speed for the Dora should the Pony climb better. If it does, it's magic! :)
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2014, 03:22:20 PM »
Hit the brakes, he'll fly right by.

ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline mthrockmor

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2649
Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2014, 05:10:46 PM »
Scholz, you may need to test it out. I'm speaking of a set climb rate of 260mph, not at optimum climb speed. I'll test it again though the Dora has never out climbed the PonyD under that speed condition.

boo
No poor dumb bastard wins a war by dying for his country, he wins by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his.
George "Blood n Guts" Patton