Author Topic: Once Again... The Catalina  (Read 1722 times)

Offline BaldEagl

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Once Again... The Catalina
« on: January 31, 2014, 11:49:21 PM »
I see no reason why the PBY Catalina has been excluded from the game for this long.



PBY
June 1937-May 1945
4,051 Catalinas, Cansos (Canada), and GSTs (Soviet Union)

Proposed Varient:  PBY-5A
October 1941–January 1945
Production: 802

One of the most widely used seaplanes of World War II, Catalinas served with every branch of the United States Armed Forces and in the air forces and navies of many other nations including Australia, Brazil, Canada, Great Britan and Russia with the last active military PBYs retired from service in the 1980s.

Imagine the skinning options to appeal to our players from around the world.

Let's forget temporarily about it's actual seaplane capabilities.  Those can be modeled later at an appropriate time.



So now that we've established it, at least temporarily, as a land based plane lets see what could be done with it in the game.

During World War II, PBYs were used in anti-submarine warfare (Catalinas were the most extensively used anti-submarine warfare aircraft in both the Atlantic and Pacific Theaters of World War II and were also used in the Indian Ocean.), patrol bombing (United States Navy Black Cats attacked Japanese supply convoys at night sinking 112,700 tons of merchant shipping, damaging 47,000 tons and 10 Japanese warships.), convoy escorts, search and rescue missions (especially air-sea rescue) and cargo transport. In addition, both USN and RAAF Catalinas regularly mounted nuisance night bombing raids on Japanese bases.

Catalinas participated in some of the most notable naval engagements of World War II. An RAF Coastal Command Catalina located the German battleship Bismarck, which was attempting to evade Royal Navy forces, a flight of Catalinas spotted the Japanese fleet approaching Midway Island, beginning the Battle of Midway while a Royal Canadian Air Force Canso foiled Japanese plans to destroy the Royal Navy's Indian Ocean fleet when it detected the Japanese carrier fleet approaching Ceylon.

Light bomber, torpedo aircraft (in our case used against task groups until submarines are modeled), armed cargo/troop transport, spotter/observation aircraft (allow it the same GV spotting capabilities as the Storch).

Skinning possibilities expand with the introduction of the Black Cats.

Use in scenarios, particularily Midway.

Let's look at performance.

General characteristics
Crew: 10 — pilot, co-pilot, bow turret gunner, flight engineer, radio operator, navigator, radar operator, two waist gunners, ventral gunner
Length: 63 ft 10 7/16 in (19.46 m)
Wingspan: 104 ft 0 in (31.70 m)
Height: 21 ft 1 in (6.15 m)
Wing area: 1,400 ft² (130 m²)
Empty weight: 20,910 lb (9,485 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 35,420 lb (16,066 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney R-1830-92 Twin Wasp radial engines, 1,200 hp each

Performance
Maximum speed: 196 mph (314 km/h)
Cruise speed: 125 mph (201 km/h)
Range: 2,520 mi (4,030 km)
Service ceiling: 15,800 ft (4,000 m)
Rate of climb: 1,000 ft/min (5.1 m/s)

Armament
3 .30 cal (7.62 mm) machine guns (two in nose turret, one in ventral hatch at tail)
2 .50 cal (12.7 mm) machine guns (one in each waist blister)
4,000 lb (1,814 kg) of bombs or depth charges (or torpedo racks)

By some measures a hanger queen but, with a unique combination of chachteristics all it's own and the ability to expand on it's uses as the game progresses combined with nearly endless skinning possibilities catering to players from many nations outside the US I'd venture to guess that the Catalina would develop a strong, albeit small, core audience.

For the umpteenth time I think the PBY is long overdue.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 11:52:46 PM by BaldEagl »
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Once Again... The Catalina
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2014, 12:06:10 AM »
Agree. Full stop.  No excuse. 

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Offline Fish42

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Re: Once Again... The Catalina
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2014, 12:54:06 AM »
+1, nothing like a slow flying, weakly defended target. Now if you want a Flying boat that could defend its self and was a hell of a lot quicker, the HK8

General characteristics

    Crew: 10
    Length: 28.15 m (92 ft 4 in)
    Wingspan: 38.00 m (124 ft 8 in)
    Height: 9.15 m (30 ft)
    Wing area: 160 m² (1,721 ft²)
    Empty weight: 18,380 kg (40,436 lb)
    Loaded weight: 24,500 kg (53,900 lb)
    Max. takeoff weight: 32,500 kg (71,500 lb)
    Powerplant: 4 × Mitsubishi Kasei 22 radial engines, 1,380 kW (1,850 hp) each

Performance

    Maximum speed: 465 km/h (290 mph)
    Range: 7,150 km (4,440 mi)
    Service ceiling: 8,760 m (28,740 ft)
    Rate of climb: 8.1 m/s (1,600 ft/min)
    Wing loading: 153 kg/m² (31 lb/ft²)
    Power/mass: 0.22 kW/kg (0.14 hp/lb

Armament

    Guns:
        5× 20 mm Type 99 cannon (one each in bow, dorsal, and tail turrets, plus one each in two waist blisters)
        5× 7.7 mm (.303 in) Type 92 machine guns in fuselage hatches
    Bombs: 2× 800 kg (1,764 lb) torpedoes or Eight 250kg (4,400lbs) bombs.





The Sunderland Mk III was also in service and was faster with better fields of fire, though the bomb load was a bit lower.



Offline Wmaker

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Re: Once Again... The Catalina
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2014, 02:31:31 AM »
I see no reason why the PBY Catalina has been excluded from the game for this long.

I see plenty of reasons:

- Totally useless as far as MA goes.

- The US plane set is bloated compared to the other big countries as it is.

- Very, very little use for special events. It is so easy to name aircraft which would be many times more useful as far as these events go.
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Offline asterix

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Re: Once Again... The Catalina
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2014, 04:30:45 AM »
I see plenty of reasons:

- Totally useless as far as MA goes.

- The US plane set is bloated compared to the other big countries as it is.

- Very, very little use for special events. It is so easy to name aircraft which would be many times more useful as far as these events go.
Same here although I would really like to see a P47D23 and a B25J (with formation) added.
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Offline HornetUK

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Re: Once Again... The Catalina
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2014, 05:32:28 AM »
+1
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Offline Greebo

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Re: Once Again... The Catalina
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2014, 06:29:47 AM »
I think HTC would need to create a role that the Catalina could perform in the MA for it to be worth adding. Given its limited speed and defensive capability, the ability to up at a port would not be enough for it to see much use. The only role that comes to mind is allowing it to land next to a damaged fleet and resupply it.

The H8K would be a useful bomber in its own right and not need a specialist role. Also the floatplane version of the A6M2 would be a handy port defence aircraft and need few resources for HTC to create.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 06:31:50 AM by Greebo »

Offline Saxman

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Re: Once Again... The Catalina
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2014, 09:00:29 AM »
I think HTC would need to create a role that the Catalina could perform in the MA for it to be worth adding. Given its limited speed and defensive capability, the ability to up at a port would not be enough for it to see much use. The only role that comes to mind is allowing it to land next to a damaged fleet and resupply it.

Showing enemy TGs on the map so long as it's in visual range.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Once Again... The Catalina
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2014, 10:09:26 AM »
Showing enemy TGs on the map so long as it's in visual range.
Seems kinda tedious for the PBY player.

And what happens to the PBY if HTC ever decides to add the Sunderland or Emily?
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Offline Blinder

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Re: Once Again... The Catalina
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2014, 12:52:32 PM »
I agree that a flying boat would be a neat addition for the game but it would need a role that is mission related as simply bombing would make it less than useless. I still think along with fighter, bomber, vehicle and attack missions there needs to be a reconnaissance mission added. This would also incur perk points with the slower and more vulnerable aircraft awarding higher points. The mission should be developed along the lines of discovering targets of opportunity for each side. This should include locating fleets and shipping at sea along with finding the strats. Simply seperating the strats appears to be a good stop-gap measure but if HTC really wants this MMOG to develop and grow there needs to be a random distinction to target discovery.

I know everyone here hates Warbirds with a passion and after being here since October I am no fan anymore either. However, when I left Warbirds in 2004, the maps did have targets of opportunity strewn about it. A remote factory here, a railroad marshaling yard over there as well as concentrated targets around cities. This is where the Catalina, the Mavis, the Kingfishers, the Sunderland and a whole host of potential additions could add this critical dimension to the game.

Other than each others airbases, each new map could have the strategic targets shifted around and hidden until a reconnaissance aircraft discovers them. Then once found they remain painted on the map until the next map turns over. I'm sure the pure furballers on here would protest the development efforts but I feel this dimension of the game would be beneficial to all.

It would provide for daring recon missions for thrill seekers while fighter pilots would have to endure some mundane patrols ( just like in real life) hunting for these snoopers. Then it would simulate that pleasant feeling you top guns get when you spot easy meat attempting to make a hasty exit from the area.

It would create a reason for being and a mission for the topic of this thread as well as other seaplanes, floatplanes and land based recon aircraft.

It would create variety in the maps that a lot of you old timers have memorized thus injecting new thrills and discoveries.

My argument here is not just about supporting or increasing "porking" as many of you will think. It's about expanding the dimension of an already excellent MMOG and bringing it even closer what was real back then.
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Offline earl1937

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Re: Once Again... The Catalina
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2014, 02:23:22 PM »
I think HTC would need to create a role that the Catalina could perform in the MA for it to be worth adding. Given its limited speed and defensive capability, the ability to up at a port would not be enough for it to see much use. The only role that comes to mind is allowing it to land next to a damaged fleet and resupply it.

The H8K would be a useful bomber in its own right and not need a specialist role. Also the floatplane version of the A6M2 would be a handy port defence aircraft and need few resources for HTC to create.
:airplane:  Resupply of CV's is good idea! I think to make it more useable in the game, make it where it would not show on radar, and be able to travel with no Icons! At least that way, it would have a chance to survive long enough to re-supply a CV or a port!
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Once Again... The Catalina
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2014, 03:17:09 PM »
:airplane:  Resupply of CV's is good idea! I think to make it more useable in the game, make it where it would not show on radar, and be able to travel with no Icons! At least that way, it would have a chance to survive long enough to re-supply a CV or a port!
No, no and no.

Fleets were resupplied by freighters, not the light load a flying boat could carry.

PBYs, and other flying boats, were not stealth and would show up on radar just fine.

PBYs, and other flying boats, were not harder to see than other aircraft.


Survivability is what it is.  P-40s don't get compensation because they are less survivable than P-51s.  Want more survivability?  Use an Emily.  Want more perk points for your sortie?  Take a PBY-5A.


Having the flying boat that spots an enemy CV put the enemy CV's icon on the map for a period of time.  Say, keep the fleet in sight for 5-10 minutes to "mark its course" and then the fleet icon stays on the map for ~30 minutes, gradually fading until it is gone.  Causing the icon to show up, or refresh if the fleet already had an icon, would be the trigger to to award the perks/score.  That seems to me to be the best idea for flying boats.  Of course, they will act as bombers as well.
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Offline bangsbox

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Re: Once Again... The Catalina
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2014, 04:54:08 PM »
I would love the pby to be my torp bomber of choice. 2 US torps could sink a cv, so would only need one of these beautiful birds. And I don't even care if htc makes it LANd on water (what's the point anyway, besides having it spawnable at ports). +1 PBY

Offline Volron

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Re: Once Again... The Catalina
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2014, 05:02:45 PM »
Yes.  +1 for the H6K. :D
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Offline ReVo

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Re: Once Again... The Catalina
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2014, 05:38:01 PM »
I agree with Fish that the H8K would be a much better flying boat to have in game.
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