Author Topic: 109 out turning a spit  (Read 8500 times)

Offline danny76

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Re: 109 out turning a spit
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2014, 06:37:25 AM »
He didn't have to, others that flew with him, such as Neumann and Stigler reported it, and Emil Clade referenced Marseille chopping throttle and dropping flaps in luffberry's, and stating that no other pilot in the unit was able to perform these sort of manouvres :old:
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Offline Debrody

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Re: 109 out turning a spit
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2014, 07:33:25 AM »
Just have to do a couple field mods and your 109f will be just like mine. ;)
Oh boy, i used every possible hack i knew...  :cry  They even reported me for that  :devil
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Offline GScholz

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Re: 109 out turning a spit
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2014, 07:35:48 AM »
Some people think it takes a great effort to lower the flaps in a 109.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcMjhihuuX8

A "combat flaps" setting would require about one revolution of the wheel...
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Offline nrshida

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Re: 109 out turning a spit
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2014, 07:57:14 AM »
What? Did he write about his flying the 109? He died in the war, so there's not much chance he did.

He didn't have to, others that flew with him, such as Neumann and Stigler reported it, and Emil Clade referenced Marseille chopping throttle and dropping flaps in luffberry's, and stating that no other pilot in the unit was able to perform these sort of manouvres :old:

What he ^ said  :old:

My take is that Marseille had the opposite approach to that pickdweeb Hartmann.





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Offline Debrody

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Re: 109 out turning a spit
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2014, 08:03:24 AM »
What he ^ said  :old:

My take is that Marseille had the opposite approach to that pickdweeb Hartmann.
Do you really think that he might get it?
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: 109 out turning a spit
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2014, 08:16:46 AM »
"out turn" is a rather vague statement, yes? 

btw.... in the Spitfire family the Spit16 is the 2nd worst turner, only the Spit14 is worse. With that being said, it still out turns most planes in the game.  Mind you half of the battle is the speed in which the turn is made.  The La7 is prime example.  Many planes can out turn it but the La7 is so powerful that it make make a wider turn and keep the same rate as a plane turning a tighter circle.

Regarding the 109F-4, I think it is the best knife fighter in AH's 109 family.  Light, nimble, forgiving (for a 109), climbs very well, speed, etc, etc.  It's draw backs are the loss of control at high speed and the lack of "1 punch" knockout firepower.  The single 20mm and dual .30 cal MG's are not the poster child for bringing down enemy fighters.  The center-line mounting is nice, but the rate lack of deliverable damage is evident. I think the planes armed with the quad .50 cals are a bigger threat in many cases.  But otherwise, I think the 109F-4 is one of those hidden jewels in AH. 
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline Chalenge

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Re: 109 out turning a spit
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2014, 08:35:08 AM »
He didn't have to, others that flew with him, such as Neumann and Stigler reported it, and Emil Clade referenced Marseille chopping throttle and dropping flaps in luffberry's, and stating that no other pilot in the unit was able to perform these sort of manouvres :old:

It's a prolonged myth then. Probably it's been made worse by time and a lionization of people honoring a fallen comrade.
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Offline danny76

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Re: 109 out turning a spit
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2014, 08:37:40 AM »
It's a prolonged myth then. Probably it's been made worse by time and a lionization of people honoring a fallen comrade.

That'll be it. Same as that Walter Mitty Bader. No legs eh? Cobblers
"You kill 'em all, I'll eat the BATCO!"
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Offline danny76

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Re: 109 out turning a spit
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2014, 08:42:44 AM »
What? Did he write about his flying the 109? He died in the war, so there's not much chance he did.

Ten Fighter Boys by Wing Commander Athol Forbes DFC and Squadron Leader Hubert Allen DFC.

Ten RAF pilots, all writing about combat flying, all dead by wars end.
"You kill 'em all, I'll eat the BATCO!"
The GFC

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Offline -ammo-

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Re: 109 out turning a spit
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2014, 08:57:11 AM »
He didn't have to, others that flew with him, such as Neumann and Stigler reported it, and Emil Clade referenced Marseille chopping throttle and dropping flaps in luffberry's, and stating that no other pilot in the unit was able to perform these sort of manouvres :old:

For those interested, the book "The German Aces Speak" by Colin Heath features a chapter by Neumann in which he talks of Marseille's feats.  Great book
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline danny76

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Re: 109 out turning a spit
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2014, 09:04:54 AM »
For those interested, the book "The German Aces Speak" by Colin Heath features a chapter by Neumann in which he talks of Marseille's feats.  Great book

+1 :aok
"You kill 'em all, I'll eat the BATCO!"
The GFC

"Not within a thousand years will man ever fly" - Wilbur Wright

Offline nrshida

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Re: 109 out turning a spit
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2014, 10:14:05 AM »
Some people think it takes a great effort to lower the flaps in a 109.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcMjhihuuX8

A "combat flaps" setting would require about one revolution of the wheel...

You can only turn the wheel about a quarter revolution at a time.


Do you really think that he might get it?

Nope.



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Offline FLOOB

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Re: 109 out turning a spit
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2014, 10:19:00 AM »
"out turn" is a rather vague statement, yes? 

btw.... in the Spitfire family the Spit16 is the 2nd worst turner, only the Spit14 is worse.

false
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Offline Hoplite

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Re: 109 out turning a spit
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2014, 11:15:37 AM »
false

Agreed. 

Need to factor in the near-190 roll rate, improved engine power, etc.  I suppose it might be marginally "worse" if you are considering it from a pure, flat turn perspective but adding those other factors in it becomes the most maneuverable of the Spits.   

Offline GScholz

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Re: 109 out turning a spit
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2014, 11:30:59 AM »
You can only turn the wheel about a quarter revolution at a time.

Yes, so a 109 pilot could lower "combat flaps" in about two seconds using only his left arm.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."