A-20 perk them

[Widewing]

DBest is a "cage match". That will get your adrenalin flowing.

I'm sure many never heard of a "cage match". It's a duel fought in the TA. Two players fly from a large airfield. The fight is confined to the boundaries of the field. Wander outside too far or too often and you forfeit. Planes take off from the same same runway in opposite directions. They pass each other, fly to the end of the runway and reverse for the merge. Guns are hot after the merge.

I started doing this to train players in low speed dogfighting. It's great fun.

Here's a film with Gixer and me. Gixer was the game's Yak specialist, especially the Yak-9T. Gixer always did very well in the MA, but had little experience stall-fighting in the Yak. He did very well, considering. It's a great tool for developing plane handling skills.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/ltaxbkrai269bzk/GixerLast.ahf

[Widewing]

Exactly. And the first data needed is weight and wing area. Next the power. Let's see the wing loading and the power loading.

Easy one...

A-20G
465 square feet of wing area
18738 pounds with 25% fuel (about 22 minutes in the MA), no bombs.
Wing loading of 40.29 lb/sqft.
1,700 hp x 2
Power to weight ratio: 5.51 lb/hp

Compare that with a P-38L.
327.5 square feet of wing area
16,470 lb with 50% fuel, no under-wing stores
Wing loading of 50.29 lb/sqft
1,600 hp x 2
Power to weight ratio: 5.15 lb/hp

Compare to Fw 190A-5
197 square feet of wing area
8,364 lb with 50% fuel
Wing loading of 42.46 lb/sqft
1,539 hp
Power to weight ratio: 5.43 lb/hp

Compare C.205
181 square feet of wing area
7,157 lb with 50% fuel
Wing loading of 39.54 lb/sqft
1,475 hp
Power to weight ratio: 4.85 lb/hp

Thus, one can see that the A-20G is competitive with many fighters in terms of wing loading, and power loading. Add to that very effective flaps and you may begin to understand why the A-20 holds its own against many fighters. Those who believe (or believed) that the A-20 is over-modeled, are simply uninformed.

[PJ_Godzilla]

At that condition given, the wing loading implies it will out turn, steady state and at cornering velocity ( not sure where the speed sweet spot is) all but the 205.  It can also out bank 'em all with no alt loss. No wonder... But perk worthy? Nah.

Properly flown, she is no doubt a bee-atch, especially when you consider the record the 38j has established. I've taken the a-20 out a few times, myself. I almost always pull the wings off. The controls feel a bit light compared to my usuals. It's main drawback is probably just speed, yes?

[Widewing]

At that condition given, the wing loading implies it will out turn, steady state and at cornering velocity ( not sure where the speed sweet spot is) all but the 205.  It can also out bank 'em all with no alt loss. No wonder... But perk worthy? Nah.

Properly flown, she is no doubt a bee-atch, especially when you consider the record the 38j has established. I've taken the a-20 out a few times, myself. I almost always pull the wings off. The controls feel a bit light compared to my usuals. It's main drawback is probably just speed, yes?

The biggest challenge to flying the A-20 is not exceeding 7g under any circumstances when light, and much less when heavy. Don't exceed 400 mph IAS or the rudder will come off first, followed by elevators and ailerons. It takes some seat time get the the feel for the structural limits.... Even so, you will still break one now and then.

[Changeup]

Easy one...

A-20G
465 square feet of wing area
18738 pounds with 25% fuel (about 22 minutes in the MA), no bombs.
Wing loading of 40.29 lb/sqft.
1,700 hp x 2
Power to weight ratio: 5.51 lb/hp

Compare that with a P-38L.
327.5 square feet of wing area
16,470 lb with 50% fuel, no under-wing stores
Wing loading of 50.29 lb/sqft
1,600 hp x 2
Power to weight ratio: 5.15 lb/hp

Compare to Fw 190A-5
197 square feet of wing area
8,364 lb with 50% fuel
Wing loading of 42.46 lb/sqft
1,539 hp
Power to weight ratio: 5.43 lb/hp

Compare C.205
181 square feet of wing area
7,157 lb with 50% fuel
Wing loading of 39.54 lb/sqft
1,475 hp
Power to weight ratio: 4.85 lb/hp

Thus, one can see that the A-20G is competitive with many fighters in terms of wing loading, and power loading. Add to that very effective flaps and you may begin to understand why the A-20 holds its own against many fighters. Those who believe (or believed) that the A-20 is over-modeled, are simply uninformed.

This must be why its now my new base defense platform.  Nice job Widewing

[cobia38]

The biggest challenge to flying the A-20 is not exceeding 7g under any circumstances when light, and much less when heavy. Don't exceed 400 mph IAS or the rudder will come off first, followed by elevators and ailerons. It takes some seat time get the the feel for the structural limits.... Even so, you will still break one now and then.

  above 3 k you can squeeze 430 or so before parts start to fly,but its a real fine edge to ride and you have to have things trimmed just right.

[ReVo]

Sure, go right ahead and perk the A-20. TU-2 is every bit as good at bombing tanks if not better with the size of the bombs you can strap to it. Perk the wirble while you're at it.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Sure, let's just perk all the ammunition, and that way, when the nice man takes out his tank, he can drive around nicely. Why can't you boys just drive the pretty 'planes and drive the tanks nicely instead of always shooting at each other? That way, everybody can always drive what they want together without somebody, I don't know, "acking" you in the face or shoving an exploding piece of steel up your nose or ear or also in your face.

Why do you boys always have to be so mean to each other? MAybe instead, you could help HiTech build a beautiful palace, all made out of glitta. THere could be unicorns and rainbows.

Why, you could have a nice parade or something, and maybe there could be a pretty princess on a little pony and she could lead the parade.

THen, the OP wouldn't be so upset and you could all be friends.  

[Delirium]

You guys are giving credence to an ultimate bomb**** and his take lmfao, it doesn't get any funnier.

Go look his stats up, most of what he does apparently is bomb****, in everything he flies.

Widewing is one of the nicest guys you'll meet within Aces High. What gives him credibility is the fact he is one of the most knowledgeable regarding historical aviation within the Aces High community and even beyond.

[PJ_Godzilla]

So, let's consider the same metrics for the Beau...
TF MkX
Area: 503 ft^2
Empty Weight: (sorry, but this thing's max includes a torp) 15,592#
Max Power (didn't say if at SSL or Mil/WEP): 3200 hp

This is a WL empty of 31 psf and .2 hp/lb (5lb/hp, obviously).

This will be quite the turny and agile bird. Once again, though, the top speed will sort of mar things, in terms of uberness... I mean, it's only 320mph for this variant. Still, I find the idea of a heavily-armed, agile, long range heavy fighter to be VEEEEERY compelling. Vis will suck for the pilot, of course, but, otoh, consider having a gunner or observer (might as well have the sans aft .303 versions anyway for all the good they do) on FSO nights...

"So, Major Denton, tell us about your aircraft, the Grumman A-6 Intruuuder"... Only better... This thing will be a serious havoc-maker if a swarm of them were to, for example, blitz a base with their ords and them hang around for a de-ack and vulch gangbang party afterwards. They're picker bait out and about, but low and slow and in the mud..?

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

Sure you can perk the A20G when it has more plane model options, gun pack options a updated enhanced graphic and flight model, oh and the MISSING .30 cal in the belly that's been missing "but accounted for weight and drag wise" for YEARS!!!.


 

[lyric1]

Sure you can perk the A20G when it has more plane model options, gun pack options a updated enhanced graphic and flight model, oh and the MISSING .30 cal in the belly that's been missing "but accounted for weight and drag wise" for YEARS!!!.


 

Thirty cal was the Boston.
Fifty cal for the A-20G.

[Halo46]

Thus, one can see that the A-20G is competitive with many fighters in terms of wing loading, and power loading. Add to that very effective flaps and you may begin to understand why the A-20 holds its own against many fighters. Those who believe (or believed) that the A-20 is over-modeled, are simply uninformed.

I have always been curious why it is able to hold its own against fighters when an old training film from zeno's explicitly states, "acrobatics are forbidden." (At 10:35 or so in the film here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVqImhbKAqg.)

Its been my understanding they where fairly fragile air frames, is this inconsistent with our model, or just within our game, or am I just completely off base? Can not recall what the source for this opinion was, something I ran across a few years ago.

 

[Changeup]

I'm sure many never heard of a "cage match". It's a duel fought in the TA. Two players fly from a large airfield. The fight is confined to the boundaries of the field. Wander outside too far or too often and you forfeit. Planes take off from the same same runway in opposite directions. They pass each other, fly to the end of the runway and reverse for the merge. Guns are hot after the merge.

I started doing this to train players in low speed dogfighting. It's great fun.

Here's a film with Gixer and me. Gixer was the game's Yak specialist, especially the Yak-9T. Gixer always did very well in the MA, but had little experience stall-fighting in the Yak. He did very well, considering. It's a great tool for developing plane handling skills.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/ltaxbkrai269bzk/GixerLast.ahf

Morfiend talked with me about this the last time I visited with him in the TA.  Sounds like a lot of fun.  Please PM me if you'd like to teach someone how to do it

[Widewing]

I have always been curious why it is able to hold its own against fighters when an old training film from zeno's explicitly states, "acrobatics are forbidden." (At 10:35 or so in the film here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVqImhbKAqg.)

Its been my understanding they where fairly fragile air frames, is this inconsistent with our model, or just within our game, or am I just completely off base? Can not recall what the source for this opinion was, something I ran across a few years ago.

 

It's a training film...  Ultra-conservative, and they were meant for green pilots or pilots with no experience in the type portrayed. VNE speed for the P-51 in the manual and training films was well exceeded countless times. Training films for most fighters state that deliberate spins are forbidden. We spin them all the time.

The facts are that a pilot in combat will do anything required to win and/or survive. There are no air frame restrictions or WEP restrictions when one's life is on the line.

In service, pilots would fly the A-20 very aggressively. It was described as handling like a fighter. That said, in game, it is very easy to over-stress and break an A-20. We do aerobatics with it. We do that with many large aircraft. This isn't reality. We don't die if we pull off the wings or ailerons.