GV vs AC fun

[Lusche]

Not easy when the tank just keeps turning to face you in every pass, tracking you from the commander position.

Vertical traverse is limited. Attack from above and use zoom to determine turret position. If he's trying to aim at you but you are outside of his max elevation, you are also save from being shot in the butt as you egress (unless you insist on flying straight & level after that). Of course that takes a tad more time to set up in the Il-2 and Ju-87G, but it's absolutely worth it. Of course, if it's indeed a remote location you did bring your tank buster to, you already will have some alt/E to work with.

It very much simliar to NOT attacking a bomber from the 6 o clock position in a fighter, but taking a few moments more time to setup a proper attack.

[Xavier]

Vertical traverse is limited. Attack from above and use zoom to determine turret position. If he's trying to aim at you but you are outside of his max elevation, you are also save from being shot in the butt as you egress (unless you insist on flying straight & level after that). Of course that takes a tad more time to set up in the Il-2 and Ju-87G, but it's absolutely worth it. Of course, if it's indeed a remote location you did bring your tank buster to, you already will have some alt/E to work with.

It very much simliar to NOT attacking a bomber from the 6 o clock position in a fighter, but taking a few moments more time to setup a proper attack.

Not as easy as it sounds on a moving target. Yes, you can attack from the top to defeat the turret's maximum elevation, but then again both the Ju-87G2 and Il-2 aren't made for steep dives and quick recoveries. When a tanker can't hit you because you're coming from the top he'll usually turn the turret around to shoot you as you're recovering from the dive, or just fire a HE shell at the ground as you pass over him. I've been killed many times that way.

what I'm trying to say is that while a GV has plenty of options to evade an attack, a tank buster is made to be effective in a low, stable flight path and firing very close.

And I still can't see why the Il-2 and Ju-87G2 lack a F3 view. Or the 1K icon range, for that matter...

[Lusche]

Not as easy as it sounds on a moving target. Yes, you can attack from the top to defeat the turret's maximum elevation, but then again both the Ju-87G2 and Il-2 aren't made for steep dives and quick recoveries. When a tanker can't hit you because you're coming from the top he'll usually turn the turret around to shoot you as you're recovering from the dive, or just fire a HE shell at the ground as you pass over him. I've been killed many times that way.

Only very few, very good tankers anticipate this and start moving their turret to the opposing side early enough. And even for those you can make things more difficult by immediately pulling up and turning (don't start too late doing this).
That way, I'm almost never killed by any tank gun. Being killed by a blast of a HE round in the ground is such a freak accident that I can't even remember the last time it happened (unlike kissing a tree on my way out...  ). I had that happening maybe like 4-5 times in the Il-2 in total (untill I finally learned to adjust for it).

[Volron]

To put it simply Xavier, and this isn't meant as an attack or jab, you lack experience.  Attacking using the historical profile WILL work, but it's WHEN to do it that you are missing on.  Too soon and you will get main gunned, too late and your attack won't be any where near as effective.  Coming in from above and behind has a more solid chance of either knocking out his turret and/or engine, if you don't end up knocking him out completely.  Your egress is also as important as your setup.  There will always be a chance that you'll get hit on the way out, but knowing when to turn off for egress will help your survival by a lot.  Doing it too late leaves the tank time to try for a shot on you, and of course turning too soon spoils your chance in knocking out the tank.

You simply need more experience in attacking tanks.  The argument you keep putting forth of, "not as easy as it sounds on a moving target", isn't going to cut it.  Take notice of the terrain; trees, hills, etc.  Then predict where he is going to go.  I find that most tankers will turn down a hill vs turning up one because it gives em a bit more speed, which translates to being able to turn quicker.  They will almost always go towards trees and buildings as well vs turning out into the open as well.  Paying attention to the tanks movements will also tell you if an historical attack profile is going to be doable or not.  When I first encounter the tank, I take notice of what he's doing and how he is doing it.  My first attack run will be more of a test of the tanks skill rather than an actual attack.  If he's oblivious or slow, it's all I usually need to knock him out in that first pass.  If he's aware, he's going to show me how he will react when I make the next pass, which is my kill attempt.  It's not always going to take just one pass.  Sometimes, against someone who's fully aware and knows which side of his tank he needs to keep towards me, it will take me 2 or 3 passes before I finally have a shot.  If he's giving me enough trouble, then I will track him so I have a kill shot on the next pass.

You just need to keep at it and you will eventually pick up on it.

[Xavier]

You're both right, and I'll keep trying to improve my approaches. I'm starting to like more the Hurri IID, as it's harder to get maingunned.

[Lusche]

You're both right, and I'll keep trying to improve my approaches. I'm starting to like more the Hurri IID, as it's harder to get maingunned.

I remember when I switched from the Il-2 (with only 23mm)  to the Hurri D, back then in 2007 ... I found it so much more difficult because of the increased precision required... and I augered a lot next to enemy tanks.
A habit that i didn't get rid of completely to this day 

[Rich46yo]

F3 mode was removed due to a select few on the BBS crying about losing 262's to GHI in overshoots that he pulled off in F3 mode. Take GV's away from the game now & watch it end in short order.

Well whatever the reason to remove the F3 from the plane due to ONE person shooting down a "few" 262 persons in F3 is ridiculous. Anyone flying a 262 who gets shoot down by an IL2, in whatever mode and for whatever reason, deserves to lose their perks. The IL2 sucks as a dog fighter in F3 or F1 mode, and believe me I killed tanks by the score in them and was always dealing with fighters. Whatever "He whom we wont name's" trick was he'll take it with him to his grave. I saw his scores too and I never figured out how he did it.

Silly to change the game over one person. I suspect far more was behind it. Nowdays I dont much mess with tanks. I have no interest in dropping bombs on them.

[Volron]

The Hurri 2D is a very nice AC to start in.  While limited in ammo, she will teach you how and where to place your shots as well as ammo conservation.  She is a Saturn 5 when compared to the other TB's, so getting up and over your target will be easy.

[Lusche]

  She is a Saturn 5 when compared to the other TB's, so getting up and over your target will be easy.

I did a quick test: From takeoff to 3K with 50% fuel:

Hurricane D (16 minutes, using WEP) 1:21
Il-2 (17 minutes, no ords) 2:05
Ju-87G (24 minutes) 2:12

While the Hurri D is substantially quicker to altitude (no surprise), it still doesn't take that long for the two other tankbusters to get to a reasonable altitude to make it impractical. Like i said before, it's often the same lack of patience that makes fighters attacking bombers from 6 o clock for the most part.
Don't rush it! Take your time and kill! 

[Volron]

The Hurri 2D will build it's speed up quicker once to alt vs the other 2.   And Lusche is right, don't rush it.  As I mentioned before, it may take 2 or more passes before you finally get a good shot.

[Ack-Ack]

Well whatever the reason to remove the F3 from the plane due to ONE person shooting down a "few" 262 persons in F3 is ridiculous. Anyone flying a 262 who gets shoot down by an IL2, in whatever mode and for whatever reason, deserves to lose their perks. The IL2 sucks as a dog fighter in F3 or F1 mode, and believe me I killed tanks by the score in them and was always dealing with fighters. Whatever "He whom we wont name's" trick was he'll take it with him to his grave. I saw his scores too and I never figured out how he did it.

Silly to change the game over one person. I suspect far more was behind it. Nowdays I dont much mess with tanks. I have no interest in dropping bombs on them.

F3 was not removed because of one player shot down a ME 262, it was removed because it was being used more as a point defense fighter than as an attack plane.  Before the removal of F3, it was far more common to see an Il2 flying low DEFCAP over their base than being used in the ground support role shooting up tanks.  Now that F3 has been removed from the IL2, it's being used more in its traditional role than it was before.

ack-ack

[Butcher]

F3 was not removed because of one player shot down a ME 262, it was removed because it was being used more as a point defense fighter than as an attack plane.  Before the removal of F3, it was far more common to see an Il2 flying low DEFCAP over their base than being used in the ground support role shooting up tanks.  Now that F3 has been removed from the IL2, it's being used more in its traditional role than it was before.

ack-ack

I would like to know who lost a 262 to an IL-2 which would of started this rumor, so I can ask just how he lost a 262 to an Il-2 if it wasn't a Ho shot.

Sounds like a really good story that probably got twisted 15 times but never the less, funny.

[BuckShot]

To put it simply Xavier, and this isn't meant as an attack or jab, you lack experience.  Attacking using the historical profile WILL work, but it's WHEN to do it that you are missing on.  Too soon and you will get main gunned, too late and your attack won't be any where near as effective.  Coming in from above and behind has a more solid chance of either knocking out his turret and/or engine, if you don't end up knocking him out completely.  Your egress is also as important as your setup.  There will always be a chance that you'll get hit on the way out, but knowing when to turn off for egress will help your survival by a lot.  Doing it too late leaves the tank time to try for a shot on you, and of course turning too soon spoils your chance in knocking out the tank.

You simply need more experience in attacking tanks.  The argument you keep putting forth of, "not as easy as it sounds on a moving target", isn't going to cut it.  Take notice of the terrain; trees, hills, etc.  Then predict where he is going to go.  I find that most tankers will turn down a hill vs turning up one because it gives em a bit more speed, which translates to being able to turn quicker.  They will almost always go towards trees and buildings as well vs turning out into the open as well.  Paying attention to the tanks movements will also tell you if an historical attack profile is going to be doable or not.  When I first encounter the tank, I take notice of what he's doing and how he is doing it.  My first attack run will be more of a test of the tanks skill rather than an actual attack.  If he's oblivious or slow, it's all I usually need to knock him out in that first pass.  If he's aware, he's going to show me how he will react when I make the next pass, which is my kill attempt.  It's not always going to take just one pass.  Sometimes, against someone who's fully aware and knows which side of his tank he needs to keep towards me, it will take me 2 or 3 passes before I finally have a shot.  If he's giving me enough trouble, then I will track him so I have a kill shot on the next pass.

You just need to keep at it and you will eventually pick up on it.

This is great advice on how to do it in ah, but they didn't have to do it like that in ww2 because the tankers were looking through a scope when they fired (at ground targets) not "commander view."

Tank busters like those in this discussion did not need that diving tactic in ww2.

The ability to fire from commander view should be removed.

[hitech]

I think that shooting planes from the commander view is a myth. I am fairly sure most players shoot from the sight. People were dying from the main gun long before the commanders position

[Tank-Ace]

I think that shooting planes from the commander view is a myth. I am fairly sure most players shoot from the sight. People were dying from the main gun long before the commanders position

All I know is that back when I tanked on a regular basis, I couldn't reliably hit a tank at anything beyond point blank range from the commanders view. The idea that some are consistently tracking an aircraft going 250mph at 600yds from the commander position is frankly just laughable, sir.