Author Topic: War Thunder  (Read 11561 times)

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2014, 04:43:01 PM »
Do you actually work at being thick?  While they are the most popular of all games, they are also not realtime combat.  They are not even remotely comparable to a game like this.

Exactly, and out of those three examples, only Eve can be considered to be an "open world/sandbox" MMO.  WoW and Runescape are both 'theme park' MMOs.

You were correct in your comparison in your previous post, WT and AH only have in common is the planes.  WT and WoWP are more comparable to multiplayer games like CoD and Battlefield and are aimed at those demographics/market.

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Offline Nefarious

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2014, 04:44:27 PM »
Кремль

So Nefy, is Putin your real world shade account?

Sorry no, just a little friendly joke. I've actually never had a shade account.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2014, 04:50:46 PM »
So this is well within HTC's ability to evolve and stay strong then?

Yes it is.

Lets take a trip down memory lane and revisit a game that is dear to many of us here that we spent untold hours wasting our lives on, Air Warrior.  Most people blame EA for its demise when actually, nothing could be further from the truth.  Air Warrior was already dead because Kesmai failed time after time to 'evolve' the game.  How many remember how many years it took to get new planes in AW?  When AW4W was the primary version of Air Warrior, we went years without any substantial updates to the game and the player base started to dwindle.  Even with the release of AW2 and later AW3, years went by before any substantial updates.  In the first year of playing AH, I saw more updates to the game than I saw in over 6 years of playing AW.  The most significant update AW ever received wasn't even made by Kesmai, it was the player created SAC tool that let us change the skins of our planes and terrains.  That is why AW eventually died and it was too late by the time EA bought out Kesmai to save it.

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Offline Brooke

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2014, 04:52:37 PM »
I still think War Thunder is good for Aces High even if nearly none of its current player base is suited to Aces High.  It spreads at least some awareness of WWII fighter planes to more people, keeping that awareness alive, and I do think that at least some tiny portion of them might eventually find Aces High thanks to starting out in War Thunder.

Offline Brooke

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2014, 04:54:58 PM »
Everyone knows Aces High is the top Ivy League Air Simm Prep School in the country. It's just we are so snotty

 :aok

Offline Randy1

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2014, 05:00:19 PM »
Ack-Ack nailed this one.

With dwindling numbers there is another problem as well.  A good number of the people that are left for the most part are good players.  A new guy coming in when the numbers were up had a higher chance of running into another person of the same skill level.  Now, the odds are he or she is going to run into a person that is at reasonably good and want live long.

Offline Kazaa

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2014, 06:32:14 PM »
I put a good 700+ hours into War Thunder before I got interested in DCS and AH. I've played about 70-80 simulator battles, and they take a long, LONG time to get in. That's why I switched, the only part of the game I really want to play for fun rather than grinding levels is deserted.

Curious to know how you came about finding AH after spending a long amount of time playing WT. <Marketing question.



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Offline bustr

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2014, 07:00:56 PM »
Everyone knows Aces High is the top Ivy League Air Simm Prep School in the country. It's just we are so snotty

Brooke you are such a frat boy...........
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


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Offline muzik

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2014, 07:14:57 PM »
Do you actually work at being thick? 

Are you really that ignorant of how clueless you are?

While they are the most popular of all games, they are also not realtime combat.  

Do you comprehend the English language? The word combat for example?

Every one of those games has combat in real time. The fact that it is fantasy swords and magic potions doesn't make it any less "combat" or "real time."


Does that make more sense to you?


No? Not yet?

EvE online just made the biggest news in gaming history for what?  Can you guess?  If you can guess real time combat, it would be the only thing I've ever seen you say that was correct and I've watched your epic intellect for far too long.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/eve-online-epic-game-battle-ends-after-21-hours-300000/

Though I have to say the next little gem of a brain fart of yours does come close to being accurate...

They are not even remotely comparable to a game like this.

...but still no cigar. These games are not compared to AH because AH hasn't evolved.

The only differences between these games and AH is the "realms" they exist in and they didn't stop at modeling weapons and combat conditions. They modeled civilizations.

They all have real time combat, they are all persistent worlds and they all make money one way or another.

"Does that make more sense to you?"

Those games model economy, adventure and aspects of fantasy role playing that AH has ignored.

Take for example the simple request to allow downed pilots to be picked up by jeeps, boats or float planes. Instead htc has developed a hard line and narrow view of combat and failed to grow richer in the details and realities of warfare.


WT is realtime combat, which is its largest similarity to AH, but it is a completely different style from WT

Just because AH is a ww2 combat game doesn't take it out of the same category as games that are also MMO fantasy combats.

They are different fantasies and business models ONLY.

Does that make more sense to you?


What is your point?  Are you suggesting if they are to survive, HTC should shut down the sim and go where the money's at and make a fantasy MMO?

You are a truly special kind of boy. You don't have the capacity to understand my suggestion and not wise enough to ask before you speak therefore I got no more to explain to you.

The thing that makes MMO's popular is the whole 'hit the buzzer, get a cookie' (aka skinner box) gameplay which you mentioned.  As much as it may be difficult for you to understand, there are people, many of them playing this game, that find that style of gameplay abhorrent.

I wont waste any time discussing a complex subject like the psychology of gaming behavior with you when you don't even understand the definition of combat or real time.

Oh, they are?  

Oh they are...what? Which of my comments are you referring to? Please keep your conversation on the page, not in your rattled thoughts.

Thank you for enlightening me, Muzik.  Your vast knowledge on the subject is truly impressive.  


I try, but it would be easier if you just listen and contemplate instead of trying your hand at intellect.

Also note, those games have completely different gameplay from a game like AH.  They don't require people to have special peripherals, nor a particularly beefy computer by today's standards, and therefore have a much broader appeal than a game like this.

They are open world, they are NOT:

-Open PVP
-Realtime combat
-Flight Sims

Yep.  Some other criteria

"I don't have to pay money."
"It is instant action."

 :rolleyes: :lol   Ok,  I already adressed most of this, I will ignore the other brain farts unless you try thinking some more.

You don't know what you are talking about wiley and you rarely do. But if you think you can argue this point with me, go ahead and skin that smoke wagon and see what happens.


Exactly, and out of those three examples, only Eve can be considered to be an "open world/sandbox" MMO.  WoW and Runescape are both 'theme park' MMOs.

Pfft,  theme park?  Because they are fantasy games that takes them out of the MMO combat category? Go ahead argue that one.

You were correct in your comparison in your previous post, WT and AH only have in common is the planes.  WT and WoWP are more comparable to multiplayer games like CoD and Battlefield and are aimed at those demographics/market.

In case neither of you can grasp my comments, I wasn't making any comparison of AH to WT or WOWP. But since you brought it up I commented to hitech years ago about FA and IL-2 not being direct competitors. He took some offense to that.

But despite my comment I never believed those games were no competition at all. They do take a share away from AH even if only because people are too lazy to look for or try something new.

So go ahead and tell hitech they are no competition. He'll likely agree just to spite me, but those games will take a toll and the only thing htc can do to counter it is to stand further and further apart in features.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2014, 08:17:23 PM »


Every one of those games has combat in real time. The fact that it is fantasy swords and magic potions doesn't make it any less "combat" or "real time."

Combat in WoW, Runescape and Eve Online isn't "real time", it's basically a soft turned based combat system, also known as a "tick based combat system".  

It would help if you understood what real time combat is and what turned based (or tick based combat) is and the differences between the two.  

For example, in a MMO with a real combat system, if an archer was to fire an arrow at you, you could move and avoid it.  In a turn based combat system, hits and misses are determined by 'rolls' and you wouldn't be able to jump out of the way of an arrow to avoid it.  Whether or not the arrow hits you is up the the "roll".

Real time combat is also referred to as 'twitch combat'.


Quote
EvE online just made the biggest news in gaming history for what?  Can you guess?  If you can guess real time combat, it would be the only thing I've ever seen you say that was correct and I've watched your epic intellect for far too long.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/eve-online-epic-game-battle-ends-after-21-hours-300000/

Eve Online made news not because of it's combat system but because of the sheer size and cost of the battle.


Quote
The only differences between these games and AH is the "realms" they exist in and they didn't stop at modeling weapons and combat conditions. They modeled civilizations.

The main difference between the three MMORPGs you listed is that they are a different genre of MMOs than AH is and aren't really a good comparison to make against MMOs like AH.

Quote
They all have real time combat, they are all persistent worlds and they all make money one way or another.

Again, neither of those games you listed have real time combat.  I already explained what kind of combat systems they have, so I won't repeat myself again.


Quote
Those games model economy, adventure and aspects of fantasy role playing that AH has ignored.

Different types of MMO with different game design philosophies.  Basically, apples and oranges.

Quote
Pfft,  theme park?  Because they are fantasy games that takes them out of the MMO combat category? Go ahead argue that one.

With your reply, it's obvious that you really don't know what you're speaking about when it comes to MMOs.  Open world/sandbox games give you the freedom to do what you want, play how you want, progress how you want, etc.  In an open world/sandbox MMO, the developers basically threw you the tools and said, "Here, do what you want and have fun".

A Theme Park MMO is one that guides you through the progression of the game, from starting level to end game.  The developers control the experience, from the first time you log in and create a new character and every time after, until you reach the level cap.  

An example of an open world/sandbox game would be Star Wars Galaxies (before the NGE reboot).  You, as the player were given the tools to create the world as you saw fit and weren't restricted by the developers in what you could do.  Wanted to be a dancer and a master fencer?  No problem.  Just wanted to be a merchant or shipwright?  No problem.  Be farmer?  No problem.  As I also mentioned, Eve Online also allows the same sandbox experience.  WoW and Runescape do not, which is why they are considered to be theme park MMOs.  The MMOs I work on (FINAL FANTASY XI and FINAL FANTASY XIV) are perfect examples of theme park MMOs, though FINAL FANTASY XI is more in the old school style and doesn't hold your hand as much as current theme park MMORPGs do.

Being a theme park MMORPG has no relation to being a fantasy based game, like you seem to think it does.

ack-ack



« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 10:37:38 PM by Ack-Ack »
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Offline Wiley

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2014, 08:30:09 PM »
Thanks, Ack-Ack.  Saved me a bunch of typing.

And Muzik, I do not need to go heeled to get the bulge on a tub like you. :)

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Offline FLOOB

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2014, 09:01:37 PM »
Has anyone considered that HTC may not want huge numbers of players?
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Offline Tinkles

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2014, 10:25:10 PM »


An example of an open world/sandbox game would be Star Wars Galaxies (before the NGE reboot).  You, as the player were given the tools to create the world as you saw fit and weren't restricted by the developers in what you could do.  Wanted to be a dancer and a master fencer?  No problem.  Just wanted to be a merchant or shipwright?  No problem.  Be farmer?  No problem.  As I also mentioned, Eve Online also allows the same sandbox experience.  WoW and Runescape do not, which is why they are considered to be theme park MMOs.  The MMOs I work on (FINAL FANTASY XI and FINAL FANTASY XIV) are perfect examples of theme park MMOs, though FINAL FANTASY XI is more in the old school style and doesn't hold your hand as much as current theme park MMORPGs do.

Being a theme park MMORPG has no relation to being a fantasy based game, like you seem to think it does.

ack-ack





Dumbfounded that someone else heard of SWG, loved that game.. beats WoW anyday.

Also, could your "Theme-park" definition be called "On rails"? 
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2014, 10:25:23 PM »
muzik one thing to consider is pretty simple, on eveonline that battle people left work early to go "fight the battle".  here in aces high by the time you leave work and get home that battle would have been over and done with.  heck the full war would have been fought and won and a new one would have started.


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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2014, 10:50:46 PM »
Dumbfounded that someone else heard of SWG, loved that game.. beats WoW anyday

Also, could your "Theme-park" definition be called "On rails"? 

Not really, 'on rails' tends to mean another type of game, mostly shooter types.  Shooter games that don't allow 3D movement are usually referred to being 'on rails'.  This is an example of an 'on rails' shooter, it's House of the Dead: Overkill.



And a classic 'on rails' space shooter.


Some people also call theme park MMO's "roller coaster rides", but that's usually among players and not an industry term.

ack-ack

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