Kindergarten Lessons

[Gman]

I've read all the responses. It would take to long to respond to them all right now, and suffice it to say, like most things, it's nearly impossible to convince one side that the other's position is right.  That's a pretty common theme in the world today, just look at any news channel, and that's pretty much all we see.

I do respect everybody's positions, even if I don't agree with them.  I also don't equate that position with them personally, nearly everybody in here, no matter what side they are on, I respect, and will listen to.  Nearly everybody.  Attacking the argument, not the person, is something most here have stuck with, hence only a fraction of the posts getting deleted from the past couple of days.

Fugitive - are you SERIOUS?!?  You can't think of what to draw?  Come ON!  Don't make me send you some pm's, because I have several in my head (I can't draw a circle or straight line) that if I was you, would bring the house down.  

[BaldEagl]

I see this theme over and over about resent bbs problems.. Everyone credits the happenings of late to folk not being 'civil' or 'mob ruled' post... The facts just don't support these claims.. This is in fact NOT why people were recently banned/PNG'd.  

edit:  opps.. I think I just unknowingly made a mob post...

The facts do support the claims.

Several posts on the 12 hour rule were locked and just as soon as one was locked another was opened only to be locked itself.

Threads were being hijacked with 12 hour rule comments regardless what the thread was about and people with opposing views were, if fact, being ridiculed or their views belittled.

I don't have a dog in this hunt as I could care less what the time switch rule is but I'm not stupid enough not to see that there was an organized campaign intended to get HT to cave on the issue.

I didn't see the avatars but that's just a subtle means of pushing the envelope to continue the campaign.  "Who?  Me?  I didn't do anything wrong." while the chocolate from the cookies is smeared across your face.

Kindergarten indeed.

[Swoop]

BaldEagl gets it.

Gman's getting it.


However, I still think any response that HTC wishes to give to any question posed by a customer (and is obviously considered by many other customers) should be answered in an official manner, not with a post buried in a multi page thread of the usual kinda tripe that gets posted on the internet.  There is an announcements forum, it doesn't get used anywhere near enough.  Once upon a time in the distant past, we had an official Q&A forum where HTs thoughts on a myriad of subjects could forever be found.  One would think, when it went, the number of hits on the forum search function went up considerably.

[The Fugitive]

Fugitive - are you SERIOUS?!?  You can't think of what to draw?  Come ON!  Don't make me send you some pm's, because I have several in my head (I can't draw a circle or straight line) that if I was you, would bring the house down.  

Send them along! I'm always looking for an idea or two.

[hitech]

INearly everybody.  Attacking the argument, not the person, is something most here have stuck with, hence only a fraction of the posts getting deleted from the past couple of days.

The only reason this thread has staid reasonably on track is only becase i have been monitoring it very heavily and quickly. Had I not been it would have turned into another crusade by the same people who were part of the initial problem. And dissolved into name calling.

There have been post in this thread that were intentioally trying to take this thread off topic and only purpose was to bait me. Now had I not done any thing this would have been used too continue the crusade. Hence we were well past the hekler stage per your analogy. So here you are thanking the people who remained on topic but continue to critics the very methods that allowed this discussion to take place.

While the idea that your trying to put forth is correct your implemtation of the axiom does not fit the facts.

HiTech

[Gman]

There have been post in this thread that were intentioally trying to take this thread off topic and only purpose was to bait me.

Understood.  I saw the moderation in the earlier part of the thread, and understand that, but as I specifically said, in the last day or two, the only person I saw get anything deleted since I started blabbing was Copprhead today.  That's all I was referencing with that, I think everyone who replied to what I've written stayed within the rules on the last few pages, and on topic.  That's just my opinion.  No purse fights, no insults thrown, just respectful discourse.  

What I will say is with regards to this specifically - why do you care if people are trying to bait you here.  It's certainly not the first time it's happened, nor will it be the last.  Like I said before, it's an absolute certainty that complaints and things like this latest 12 hour flap - again something I don't ever care about - will always happen.  If the BBS is truly only used by such a small fraction of the player base, why let yourself BE baited, and spend SO much time dealing with it.  I'm not arguing about this being your house, or even that you're wrong per se with regards to moderating.  What I'm saying is the time, effort, and concern put into these trivial bbs arguments, and that's what they really amount to, trivium, is by far and away imbalanced with the possible positive effects it could have.  

I will stand pat with that, I respect HTC enough to know that me even arguing this is hypocritical enough with regards to wasting their time.  Part of me wishes that until the next version was out, that the BBS would just be shut down, as this sort of thing is never going to end.  If you charted it on a graph, it would be a pretty even line with occasional peaks like recently, but it would never have a plummeting line to the bottom of the chart.  I've stayed out of those arguments, even the recent 12 hour one.  In 15 years I have less than 1500 posts, I've kept my ears open, and my mouth shut, until yesterday at least.  This is just what I've observed from reading here nearly every day.

I'm sticking around, and have stuck around the last few years, despite rarely using my account, because I'm certain what's coming is going to be worth it.  The time that was wasted by this 12 hour flap, and I do include myself as being party to it at the end - I guess I just see it as bad business I suppose.  Again, I realize it isn't my or any other customers business, but that doesn't change the facts that the time spent dealing with this is forfeit with respects to advancing what's coming next.

[Tinkles]

Understood.  I saw the moderation in the earlier part of the thread, and understand that, but as I specifically said, in the last day or two, the only person I saw get anything deleted since I started blabbing was Copprhead today.  That's all I was referencing with that, I think everyone who replied to what I've written stayed within the rules on the last few pages, and on topic.  That's just my opinion.

What I will say is with regards to this specifically - why do you care if people are trying to bait you here.  It's certainly not the first time it's happened, nor will it be the last.  Like I said before, it's an absolute certainty that complaints and things like this latest 12 hour flap - again something I don't ever care about - will always happen.  If the BBS is truly only used by such a small fraction of the player base, why let yourself BE baited, and spend SO much time dealing with it.  I'm not arguing about this being your house, or even that you're wrong per se with regards to moderating.  What I'm saying is the time, effort, and concern put into these trivial bbs arguments, and that's what they really amount to, trivium, is by far and away imbalanced with the possible positive effects it could have.  

I will stand pat with that, I respect HTC enough to know that me even arguing this is hypocritical enough with regards to wasting their time.  Part of me wishes that until the next version was out, that the BBS would just be shut down, as this sort of thing is never going to end.  If you charted it on a graph, it would be a pretty even line with occasional peaks like recently, but it would never have a plummeting line to the bottom of the chart.  I've stayed out of those arguments, even the recent 12 hour one.  In 15 years I have less than 1500 posts, I've kept my ears open, and my mouth shut, until yesterday at least.  This is just what I've observed from reading here nearly every day.

It reflects on the game itself, in a way, at least from a community standpoint.  If HTC can't control what happens on the BBS, then as a new player, they might think "then how do they tolerate/deal with people in the game, if at all?"  And the Forums are the direct image of the community in the game, whether they are "5%" or "more" of the in-game community. So how people act here, are how they will act in game. Which, as a new player, I would ask "Is this worth risking $15+ to be treated in this manner?"

Like I said before, this is a direct image of the community, and it would be nice if the community took care of HTC by not purse fighting, and nagging on topics, and would respect the rules of HTC. Since HTC has taken care of us all this time, I think the community as a whole owes HTC to do the same and uphold the integrity of HTC's image.

As a personal side note, when I first started playing Aces High I was a squeaker at 13, if I'd seen these boards back then (didn't know of them until 2 years ago), I can't guarantee I would've played. (Or if my parents would've allowed me to).

 

[Gman]

As a personal side note, when I first started playing Aces High I was a squeaker at 13, if I'd seen these boards back then (didn't know of them until 2 years ago), I can't guarantee I would've played. (Or if my parents would've allowed me to).

I'll respond to that, and then I promise to sthu.

The boards are what they are.  Nothing ever has changed, despite the continuous moderation.  Back then, or now, there has, and always will be, complaints and ripples in the pond like the 12 hour rule debacle.  This is my point.  You can say "oh em gee, the boards are awful, good thing HTC is moderating it, I agree, those guys are all tards and dweebs and should be png'd, hurray, now everything should be smooth sailing".  Well, guess what, it won't be.  There is a list as long as you block of people that have been PNG'd over the years, and the future will yield just another long list.  The effect you're telling me about, the one that would "keep you here", or "not have discouraged you from joining" - it doesn't exist, and that's the simple reality.  It just hasn't, and can't, happen.  You even said it yourself in your post - the boards back then - well, they are no different now.  So, the net effect they could have had on you, or another new player joining, or not, is nil.  Honestly, with free access to the bbs for anyone, what is the difference I ask regarding viewing it from the perspective of a new player, when they see either a bunch of "#rule4" posts, with "moderated by xxx" at the bottom, as opposed to what was actually said there.  New player sees the edited post, and the effect is the same, even arguably worse.

I'm not saying I have the answer I don't, and when HTC refers to the damned if they do or don't, I think this entire thing sums it up better than anything else.  I don't envy their position, I can tell you that for nothing.

Anyhow, I remember when you first came around Tinkles, your posts IMO have come a long way, and I respect what you're saying.  Be well.

[MajWoody]

I agree with Grizz that something needs to be done about the side switch rule. I hope that a change will be implemented. That said, I understand Hitech's position on the bbs matter. I hope that he and Grizz can come to a resolution and get on with the game. I think this community is better off with Grizz in it than the community without him.

[fuzeman]

<snip>Even those get respect who vulch in the koth toc, if they do it with a smile on their face.  <bitter sigh>  "kneel down"   lol

Only wasted my time on the first page but where the heck did this come from.

[shoresroad]

Hey Shores.

I would answer your example with one of my own:  Regarding the bouncer analogy, this is my opinion (I also did that job through school at the biggest rock bar in my country, over 1500 capacity).  A customer yelling at the band from his table or the crowd "you suck!", while he's sitting there buying drinks for 4 people yet doing nothing else other than occasionally yelling his displeasure at the band - should I go over and crack him the head, and toss him and the other 4 people in his party out, while they're still pouring money into the business, and causing no damage whatsoever, even if other customers sometimes look over and take note of his stupid yelling?  No. I leave him be.  If he gets up and chucks a beer bottle at somebody's head, starts a fight, pulls a weapon - anything that actually will have a negative impact on the business - one that outweighs his financial contributions or puts the company or other customers in actual danger - well, obviously he's going out the door.  I equate the first part, the yelling, to the complaining on the bbs.  I equate the second, the violent destructive action, to something like actively making cheats or trying to hack the bbs, something along those lines.

I don't know where you drink, Gman, but I try to avoid bars with chicken wire protecting the band

[LCADolby]

See rule 2 and change your sig

[Nath[BDP]]

Now John Lennon wouldn't have caved in.  

You do not know what hell looks like until you've been in AH gulag.

After several years of being forced into repetitive work (we were told it was for "the betterment of the community") like bombing cities, making goon runs, and driving vehicles around for hours on end,  One learns to to recognize the authority of HTC very quickly...  

Imprisoned alongside such other Aces High vagrants as RAM, TOWD, and ALENBLOOD was no laughing matter.  

[Gman]

RAM..Towd.  I remember Torque driving Towd to the point of insanity, or past it.

Ram - remember all that about his sisters?  That and the 190s "ripping wings" too often for him - those were the days.

[Bear76]

You do not know what hell looks like until you've been in AH gulag.

After several years of being forced into repetitive work (we were told it was for "the betterment of the community") like bombing cities, making goon runs, and driving vehicles around for hours on end,  One learns to to recognize the authority of HTC very quickly...  

Imprisoned alongside such other Aces High vagrants as RAM, TOWD, and ALENBLOOD was no laughing matter.  

Just figured you would get the joke and no one else would. I understand your point.