Author Topic: Player Names  (Read 4380 times)

Offline Triton28

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Re: Player Names
« Reply #75 on: June 16, 2014, 03:59:28 PM »
You can already do this quite easily in the MA, using existing game mechanics.

So your wish is already granted. 
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Offline BowHTR

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Re: Player Names
« Reply #76 on: June 16, 2014, 04:00:55 PM »
You could also use Alt + I to turn enemy nametags off, yet you still stated that nametags have no place whatsoever. You clearly just stated that this wasn't a social network and that names should only be shown after an opponent was shot down, so let's make that apply to all sides.

How would we identify friendly from enemy if we turned all the icons off? I have no wish to turn off the nametags, you do. Therefore i dont need to Alt I, but thank you!
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Offline Skyyr

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Re: Player Names
« Reply #77 on: June 16, 2014, 04:01:31 PM »
No, what I'm saying is, adding a name would be little different from if they were to add a speed indicator on a bandit, so you'd see in red, 'P51D-550mph' or whatever their current speed was.  Giving you opponent names is giving you too much information about your situation and eliminating a large portion of gameplay by knowing exactly who you're fighting with at a glance.

Wiley.

But it's not. I speak from 15+ years of experience in sims with nametags on. You soon learn that the only thing the nametag tells you is what to likely expect. In reality, all it does is cause ALL pilots to improve in skill, because they soon learn that they become predictable without the anonymity to hide behind.

While this is something that it allows, it isn't a negative experience. It causes all pilots to stop relying on a singular (or very small set of) "I win" moves and adapt, because they themselves are identified and learned quickly. It truly, and I mean this genuinely, causes competition and overall skill to skyrocket.

Thus far, you've been the only person to provide a remotely logical reason that this might not work - target prioritization. I applaud you for using reasoning to argue your point.

I urge you to consider the above points and think through them - I believe you'll find truth in what I'm saying.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 04:04:05 PM by Skyyr »
Skyyr

Tours:
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nrshida: "I almost beat Skyyr after he took a 6 year break!"
A few moments later...

vs Shane: 30-11

KOTH Wins: 6, Egos Broken: 1000+

Mmmmm... tears.

Offline Skyyr

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Re: Player Names
« Reply #78 on: June 16, 2014, 04:03:08 PM »
So your wish is already granted. 

What wish? You stated that the requested changes would allow you to hunt players - I simply pointed out it was already possible to do so with the existing mechanics and therefore not a valid concern.

My reason for the request is not for hunting others, but rather for the numerous aforementioned reasons.
Skyyr

Tours:
166 - 190
198 - 204
218 - 220
286 - 287
290 - 296

nrshida: "I almost beat Skyyr after he took a 6 year break!"
A few moments later...

vs Shane: 30-11

KOTH Wins: 6, Egos Broken: 1000+

Mmmmm... tears.

Offline BowHTR

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Re: Player Names
« Reply #79 on: June 16, 2014, 04:07:44 PM »
Can you easily identify a small name or painting on a aircraft from 6K away regardless of flight heading in relation to your heading? I cant and I don't think anyone else can. Identifying who the pilot is will not help you improve skill. If your challenged by Bruv, why not fly as if every enemy is Bruv? If you come across a 262, why not fly as if its Jazzi, dolby, Grizz, or any other 262 fanatic. That's where you will get your skill from.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 04:12:12 PM by BowHTR »
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Offline Skyyr

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Re: Player Names
« Reply #80 on: June 16, 2014, 04:11:45 PM »
Can you easily identify a small name or painting on a aircraft from 6K away regardless of flight heading in relation to your heading? I cant and I don't think anyone else can. Identifying who the pilot is will not help you improve skill. If your challenged by Bruv, why not fly as if every enemy is Bruv? If you come across a 262, why not fly as if its Jazii, dolby, Grizz, or any other 262 fanatic. That's where you will get your skill from.

This isn't about skill evaluation. It's about cultivating an environment of identification and competition, while making the game more accessible to new players.
Skyyr

Tours:
166 - 190
198 - 204
218 - 220
286 - 287
290 - 296

nrshida: "I almost beat Skyyr after he took a 6 year break!"
A few moments later...

vs Shane: 30-11

KOTH Wins: 6, Egos Broken: 1000+

Mmmmm... tears.

Offline BowHTR

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Re: Player Names
« Reply #81 on: June 16, 2014, 04:15:33 PM »
This isn't about skill evaluation. It's about cultivating an environment of identification and competition, while making the game more accessible to new players.

I dont think the new players care who the callsign is behind the enemy icon. With time, yes, maybe. But also with time they will learn to watch for those distinct flying characteristics that Triton was speaking of. 
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Offline Debrody

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Re: Player Names
« Reply #82 on: June 16, 2014, 04:16:12 PM »
This isn't about skill evaluation. It's about cultivating an environment of identification and competition, while making the game more accessible to new players.
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Offline TheCrazyOrange

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Re: Player Names
« Reply #83 on: June 16, 2014, 04:16:32 PM »
I don't know about you, but I'm always in competition with my squadies to see who can knock down the most red stuff. And in a competition to not die every time I engage.

I don't need to know it's Willey to blow the wing off his perk farming mossie.

Offline Tinkles

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Re: Player Names
« Reply #84 on: June 16, 2014, 04:34:07 PM »
War Thunder has it - and it's playerbase eclipses ours on the order of thousands.

Yet as others, you provide no logical, reasonable explanation against it - you simply state emotional ("excitement") reasons as to why you're against it. Name one competitive, modern, openly-successful sport where players compete anonymously against each other - you can't, because that limitation defies the basis of even-grounded, fair play.

  • Not knowing who you're fighting allows for the weaker-skilled of the two combatants to enter a fight without knowing he's probably already lost.
  • Not knowing who you're fighting allows for the losing party to run away, without any attention given to his identity.
  • Not knowing who you're fighting allows for parties to be misidentified.
  • Not knowing who you're fighting encourages hiding behind numbers, as you can't be singled out when flying anonymously.
  • And so on...

Also, correlation does not imply causation - please refrain from going down that route.

You can't use that as the sole reason for them having more players. An easier to learn flight model and "dem graphics" contribute significantly. I would say it's a margin of the reason, but not significant like flight model or graphics.

   I am sort of a fence sitter on this wish.  While I wouldn't mind seeing the names of the enemy, it would take the challenge of observing the enemy while in flight (did he make a mistake, did he do a special move?) right out of it.  I don't think it is beneath some players new or vet to run from an enemy. Right now, they don't know who it is, but what if they did?  What if they knew it was a noob who was chasing them, rather than a 'vet with skillz'.  


I like the 'fog of war' in terms of names.  I wouldn't mind however, for this idea to be implemented in the DA and TA.  And if it was to be implemented for the main arenas, I would suggest to have it tested only in the Mid-War Arena. While many don't play there, some do, and those that do could give feedback (and those from LW could play in mid for a day to see how it is ).  

Of course, assuming that this doesn't take a bunch of time from HTC's workload as it is.


Edit:

Of course Ink would want this  :neener: , because he doesn't run from fights!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 04:38:13 PM by Tinkles »
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Player Names
« Reply #85 on: June 16, 2014, 04:47:10 PM »
But it's not. I speak from 15+ years of experience in sims with nametags on. You soon learn that the only thing the nametag tells you is what to likely expect. In reality, all it does is cause ALL pilots to improve in skill, because they soon learn that they become predictable without the anonymity to hide behind.

While this is something that it allows, it isn't a negative experience. It causes all pilots to stop relying on a singular (or very small set of) "I win" moves and adapt, because they themselves are identified and learned quickly. It truly, and I mean this genuinely, causes competition and overall skill to skyrocket.

This point I'll grant you, I do tend to try a little harder if it's a known bandit.  On the other side though, if it's someone I know I can beat because they always fall for move x, it gives me the info to make the right move for the right bandit, giving me a greater advantage over them than I might have by not knowing who I'm fighting.  And when I speak of 'knowing' I mean absolutely, not having a pretty good idea that player x is operating in this area.

Quote
Thus far, you've been the only person to provide a remotely logical reason that this might not work - target prioritization. I applaud you for using reasoning to argue your point.

I urge you to consider the above points and logically think through it - I think you'll find truth in what I'm saying.

I've only been in online flight sims for 7 years(! has it been that long?)  I started in WB's, they do bandit names.  I personally prefer the way AH does it.  Whether you recognize the bandit's name or not, you change what you're doing.  When all you know is what plane the bandit is flying, you either treat everyone as a master until they prove differently, or you sometimes get lazy and it bites you if you don't give a bandit enough respect.  That's part of gameplay.

It also makes the enemy force less fearsome if you can look at the fifteen bandits you're heading into and are able to go, "unknown, unknown, unknown, unknown, unknown, unknown, decent stick, beast, beast, beast, unknown, unknown, unknown, unknown, unknown".  It effectively means of the fifteen, you only really have to watch 4 of them, and it seems less of a threat and less interesting.

You're assuming the best possible scenario for fostering a culture of mutual betterment and competition.  I personally think a major downside would be witch hunting.  As it stands now, it's relatively difficult to keep track of an enemy player if they don't want to be found.  Constant feedback of where people are would result in some major hunting parties, I think.  You say "well just report them then."  I say, why build a system that makes that necessary when the current system makes it difficult enough that it rarely happens?

I don't need to know it's Willey to blow the wing off his perk farming mossie.

I do my perk farming in my D11, tyvm.  The mossie experiments of late were fueled by curiosity. ;)

Wiley.
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Offline LCADolby

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Re: Player Names
« Reply #86 on: June 16, 2014, 05:11:41 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 11:11:06 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Player Names
« Reply #87 on: June 16, 2014, 05:36:32 PM »
Perhaps you're not a real pilot. I am, and tracking real planes is tens of times easier than in AH. Why? Because in real life, you can see planes 10+ miles off. In real life, you can see markings on the planes and you can see exhaust stains, you can see dents, etc. - things that make it very easy to identify which aircraft you're looking at.

I'm a real pilot, too, and this is crap. I enjoyed my few fights with you, Skyyr, but you lost all credibility here.

Otherwise, I see no harm in the O P's wish. It's fun to know who you're fighting.

- oldman

Offline Skyyr

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Re: Player Names
« Reply #88 on: June 16, 2014, 06:01:06 PM »
I'm a real pilot, too, and this is crap. I enjoyed my few fights with you, Skyyr, but you lost all credibility here.

Otherwise, I see no harm in the O P's wish. It's fun to know who you're fighting.

- oldman


Average visual range on most modern fighters is around 5 miles. Double that for bombers. Contrails can double that distance (or more). Someone with very good eyesight can add even more distance. So no, the 3.5 mile, low-resolution clump of pixels we have in game is not anything like real life.

The game does a poor job at emulating the resolution of human eyesight.

Edit: here's a video of an Israeli Air Force pilot who spotted fighters, visually, at 24 miles, also confirmed via radar (go to 19:30): http://youtu.be/0xlalUXx3Sg
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 06:13:59 PM by Skyyr »
Skyyr

Tours:
166 - 190
198 - 204
218 - 220
286 - 287
290 - 296

nrshida: "I almost beat Skyyr after he took a 6 year break!"
A few moments later...

vs Shane: 30-11

KOTH Wins: 6, Egos Broken: 1000+

Mmmmm... tears.

Offline Arlo

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Re: Player Names
« Reply #89 on: June 16, 2014, 06:03:45 PM »
If this request fails, then I'll take your suggestion and start another thread requesting all nametags to be turned off, both friendly and enemy. Sound fair?

Um. It's failing already. No need to go manic depressive.