Author Topic: HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?  (Read 10218 times)

Offline ARSNishi

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Re: HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2014, 12:48:24 PM »
Actually, you complained it was a "h2h" shot. Which is ironic, because...
  That doesn't even closely resemble the truth.  Refer to your own screenshot and you will see a compliment, not a complaint.  My assessment of your AoA only reinforces your quote of me below.   The admitted sarcasm was motivated by the fact that you managed to kill a plane flying straight and level....  as anyone who views the film can see...... irrespective of the AoA.
...you weren't at the stick, yet you clearly saw enough of the fight to see the setup, the shot, and then the kill. Interesting... :rolleyes:

Click.
Apparently you struggled comprehending it the first time I wrote it so I will try to be a little clearer.    My assessment of your AoA attributed to you in my sarcastic compliment.....   came from a perspective of someone "not AFK, but obviously at that moment, NOT focused on flying his pixelated plane, but rather distracted while texting"   In other words I was there, but I had my cell phone in my hand.... Not my joystick. 
Once more.... that immediate AoA assessment only serves to underscore how distracted I was. 

 Now can we all just give westbound skyrr his due kudos for shooting down a straight and level eastbound plane in one pass?  Bravo skyrr  :rolleyes:

:salute Nishizawa

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Offline Skyyr

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Re: HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?
« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2014, 01:13:25 PM »
The admitted sarcasm was motivated by the fact that you managed to kill a plane flying straight and level....  as anyone who views the film can see...... irrespective of the AoA.  Apparently you struggled comprehending it the first time I wrote it so I will try to be a little clearer.    My assessment of your AoA attributed to you in my sarcastic compliment.....   came from a perspective of someone "not AFK, but obviously at that moment, NOT focused on flying his pixelated plane, but rather distracted while texting" Once more.... that immediate AoA assessment only serves to underscore how distracted I was.  

So you made a sarcastic comment regarding the cause of your death when you weren't even focused on flying. Interesting, using sarcasm to cover up your choice to ignore an incoming threat and continue to text. However, when I replied it was a "deflection shot" (without sarcasm or ill-intent), you replied:

Quote from: ARSNishi
film with show otherwise

On one hand, you're saying that you weren't even flying and would have died regardless and that it was indeed a shot to your broadside, as you flew afk. Yet, reading the chat log, you clearly said the film would show it was something other than a deflection shot (which we've openly determined it was indeed a flanking deflection shot) and then claimed it was a h2h (which, also, has been determined not to be the case).


So which one is it?
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 01:26:49 PM by Skyyr »
Skyyr

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290 - ---

nrshida: "I almost beat Skyyr after he took a 6 year break!"
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Offline BnZs

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Re: HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2014, 01:15:46 PM »
Not to be rude, but Latrobe is virtually famous for his skill, especially in 109's. He's easily top 10 AH pilots overall. Again, not to be rude, but who the hell are you?
He is famous for his skill, part of which includes gunnery. I've seen his films. With his gunnery skills his moves mean something. Without it, all would be for naught. As it often has been for me when many bandits were in the air.


If Skyyrr gets "unfairly" targeted... I'm kind of okay with it.
And this is a rather abominable outlook on justice. If there are set rules (rule of law) that are agreed upon, then one can objectively evaluate whether a person is innocent or guilty of violating them. If it is the nebulous horsedung that some people label the "rules" of the MA, then a hated person (or group) will always be held guilty of violating them, while the offenses of more favored individuals will be glossed over. This is more or less what is happening here, as far as I can tell.

I would disagree. Ideally you come down such that they are showing you their top/bottom at around D-600. This prevents people like you and Skyyrr and Bozon from wildly spraying fire as I pump lead into your hopefully out-fought carcass.
We will have to agree to disagree here. Waiting till you can see them go nose down may present them the opportunity to regain some maneuver potential and do some wild evasive. Snap it into a spin if nothing else. And there is not one chance in 50 of a guy who is hanging there out of airspeed hitting you when he fires anyway, so it's a worthy risk for a near certain target.
EDIT: Hitech himself has listed the kind of shots you get when roping as a reason that head-ons cannot be turned off, ala Air Warrior.


I'd say you're scissors aren't working real great if they only got you a head-on.
It wasn't a head-on, I was essentially shooting at his planform, from in front of the 3/9 line at close range. He did not point guns at me. His argument was that he COULD have pointed guns at me, if he had pulled harder. In flight, there is no way for me to know what he COULD potentially do, only that from what happened on my screen it appeared I had cut inside his turn. Good guy generally, we didn't have an issue, but I think his logic was a bit murky on that and many players use such similar murky logic.

Speaking of which, how is he reasonably supposed to avoid you? If it's like I'm picturing your two flight paths, it would come up rather abruptly, where there's not much room to maneuver.
When it looks like a guy is going to be able to get guns on me in a situation like this, I show them my wingtip to make a narrow target and do a jink. If they miss and don't react quickly, this may give me shot position on the next turn of the scissors. If they hit, I don't make the argument "I could have put my nose on you too!!!", even if in reality I could have.

Also your dilemma is why I try not to ho. Rather than assume everyone is going to Ho, I've decided it's irrelevant; I'm good enough I don't have to.
I assume everyone may HO. Therefore I rarely get hit by HOs, and never complain about them when my ACM skill fails to let me avoid the HO.

So you've moved from flying for fights to flying to have a good K/D  :headscratch:?
No, I do not fly for k/d, or score at all, as is made obvious by looking at my score. :) Fulfilling the parameters of max k/d would be un-fun, albeit I would argue it still take skill to beat the k/d ratios of those who specialize in it. I fly for the satisfaction of devising the best possible tactic to achieve the best outcome I can attain in whatever situation I find myself in. I simply see no greater value in me out-turning a guy because I brought an Fm2 than him out-Hoing my Fm2 because he brought a 190A8, if he can make me fall for it. There are escapes I have made from very bad situations that I find more satisfying than some kills. I do NOT handicap myself by having unrealistic expectations of how "fair" a fight I will get, nor do I waste my emotional energy being angry at what are, after all, my fellow fighter pilots for fighting "unfairly" in an arena which plainly has no rules.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 01:26:54 PM by BnZs »
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Offline Zerstorer

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Re: HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?
« Reply #63 on: July 02, 2014, 01:34:31 PM »
but you are participating in this one, are you not?

I do not see it as an attempt to discredit or embarrass Nishi.  If I did, I wouldn't participate.  If you note, all I did was express my opinion concerning HOs in the MA.  

Note that I did not do any of the following:

- call anyone a name (e.g. "tard", "idiot", et al).
- attempt to describe another pilot's flying as lacking <courage / heart / honor / style>
- accuse a individual of using a serious illness of themselves or a family member as an excuse for some perceived offense
- attempt to imply someone is a pervert driving in a "candy van" because I don't agree with their opinion and/or dislike them personally
- accuse someone of participating in a conspiracy to discredit another individual


We are far too disorganised to 'operate' in any shape or form. I thought that was why you quit.

Actually I left for a number of reasons.....but that wasn't one of them.  I agree AoM, from a purely operational perspective, is a bit loose.  But so are many other squads.  

That said, I would not characterize AoM as disorganized when it comes to PR.  The AoM PR modus operandi are established and well known.

Enjoy your day.  :salute
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 01:39:34 PM by Zerstorer »
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Offline mthrockmor

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Re: HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?
« Reply #64 on: July 02, 2014, 02:21:45 PM »
I remember  :old: back in the day that dueling league had a rule of 'cold merge.' After that, fights on. In a furball that would be a HA. On the merge, HO.
No poor dumb bastard wins a war by dying for his country, he wins by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his.
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Offline morfiend

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Re: HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?
« Reply #65 on: July 02, 2014, 03:22:06 PM »

You are right mate, no one was calling it a HO, not even Nishi who was the guy who got shot.

This whole thread seems to be an attempt to drag Nishi into seeming to be whining about a HO, which, in fact, he was not.


Fulcrum foolishly brought up 'history between Nishi and Skyr in FA' which makes it obvious that somewhere private this situation is being discussed without Nishi's knowledge. As Shida said, this is all just a transparent Rule 4 work around.


 Batty, the only reason I posted was to say that I dislike the term HO!  If HTC didnt want to allow frontal shots they could do as was done in AW and thats to reduce the effectiveness of shots from a frontal aspect.

  In AW it was a waste to fire face to face as most of the ammo didnt count as hits.


  I watched the film,I saw a KI84 that was on auto pilot being attacked from the front,big deal,the motives for posting such a film I cant comment on as I have no imformation on the reason.

  I've read a couple posts by people who seem to bypass the PNG and make wild claims and I'm more offended by those than any silly grudge match.

    It appears to me that players need to get over themselves and shelve the ego and just have fun playing this great game Dale and group has developed for us! We have seemed to lost the fact that AH is supposed to be fun,a place to make friend and just get away from all those real problems in the real world! I'm likely going to get this thread locked because of some rule or another but frankly I dont care,and I dont like that aboput myself ATM,I've always cared and thats the reason I try to do my best to help players get better. As a player gets better they have more fun,atleast IMHO and maybe they will stick around and make it fun for all the others. However day in and day out I see nothing but whining and complaining,the sky is fall chicken little stuff and I've grown tired of it.

  Sure I could just stop reading the forums but not really,part of the duties of a trainer is to respond to players request for help and or training so I cant just stop read the BBS entirely.


  I could say I can outfly 90% of the player base,etc.etc. but I never do because my shooting always will let me down,therefore I take any and every shot I get I could care less what aspect it's from or score or KD or any other nonsense,to me so long as it's fun I win!


   I better stop before I say some things I will regret!!! :devil




    :salute

Offline Someguy63

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Re: HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?
« Reply #66 on: July 02, 2014, 04:01:53 PM »
What's going on in here? :bolt:
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Offline ARSNishi

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Re: HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?
« Reply #67 on: July 02, 2014, 04:29:47 PM »
Whew!  :bhead you really are struggling grasping this aren't you?
Interesting, using sarcasm to cover up your choice to ignore an incoming threat and continue to text.
Wrong..... Again.  The first I was aware of you was when I heard the shots coming from my front and then saw and heard you zoom past.  Sadly, I didn't have time to utilize my protractor, so my AoA assessment and the subsequent attributing compliment was a snap judgement at best.

  I do know that you shot at and hit a straight and level eastbound plane while headed westbound.... So my sarcastic compliment was appropriate.  

On one hand, you're saying that you weren't even flying and would have died regardless and that it was indeed a shot to your broadside, as you flew afk. Yet, reading the chat log, you clearly said the film would show it was something other than a deflection shot (which we've openly determined it was indeed a flanking deflection shot) and then claimed it was a h2h (which, also, has been determined not to be the case).


So which one is it?
I'll not be endorsing your premise there, no more than I have this entire thread's "HO whine" characterization.  It was sarcastically complimenting you on "really impressive h2h skillz" for shooting down basically an unpiloted plane based on a snap judgement from one who only caught the tail end of what happened.  If the masses determine my snap AoA assessment was a bad call....  I can live with that.    

Just as you will have to live with the carefully cultivated reputation of someone who 9 times out of 10 proudly demonstrates his h2h skillz but yet will jump at the opportunity to start a thread with the covert intent of a rule#4 work around, while masquerading as a self-righteous "HO or not a HO?" Straw man argument.  

Utterly laughable in its transparency

Fighter Ace vet lured to the dark side, a.k.a..  -AoM-  Fear the Mighty Mitsubishi Mounted Muppet!

Nishizwa in game, Nish or Nishi will work too

Offline Skyyr

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Re: HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?
« Reply #68 on: July 02, 2014, 04:51:58 PM »
"HO or not a HO?" Straw man argument.  

You said "h2h" - no one else implied anything else until that point - and then made the claim that "film will show otherwise." You were wrong. Period. No amount of failed sarcasm or projection will change that.
Skyyr

Tours:
166 - 190
198 - 204
218 - 220
286 - 287
290 - ---

nrshida: "I almost beat Skyyr after he took a 6 year break!"
A few moments later...

vs Shane: 29-7

"Some men just want to watch the world burn."

Offline ARSNishi

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Re: HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?
« Reply #69 on: July 02, 2014, 05:11:25 PM »
You said "h2h" - no one else implied anything else until that point - and then made the claim that "film will show otherwise." You were wrong. Period. No amount of failed sarcasm or projection will change that.
Your failed projection of a "HO whine" characterization is where you were wrong.   As I said, I can live with my snap assessment being deemed a bad call given the circumstances.  

Fighter Ace vet lured to the dark side, a.k.a..  -AoM-  Fear the Mighty Mitsubishi Mounted Muppet!

Nishizwa in game, Nish or Nishi will work too

Offline Skyyr

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Re: HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?
« Reply #70 on: July 02, 2014, 05:12:36 PM »
Your failed projection of a "HO whine" characterization is where you were wrong.   As I said, I can live my snap assessment being deemed a bad call given the circumstances.   

You claimed the film would show differently - it, in fact, did not.
Skyyr

Tours:
166 - 190
198 - 204
218 - 220
286 - 287
290 - ---

nrshida: "I almost beat Skyyr after he took a 6 year break!"
A few moments later...

vs Shane: 29-7

"Some men just want to watch the world burn."

Offline ARSNishi

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Re: HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?
« Reply #71 on: July 02, 2014, 05:20:59 PM »
You claimed the film would show differently - it, in fact, did not.
yeah, I read it when you said it in your previous post.   And responded to it.   Again.

Good day

Fighter Ace vet lured to the dark side, a.k.a..  -AoM-  Fear the Mighty Mitsubishi Mounted Muppet!

Nishizwa in game, Nish or Nishi will work too

Offline mechanic

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Re: HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?
« Reply #72 on: July 02, 2014, 06:38:42 PM »
I do not see it as an attempt to discredit or embarrass Nishi.  If I did, I wouldn't participate.  If you note, all I did was express my opinion concerning HOs in the MA.  

Note that I did not do any of the following:

- call anyone a name (e.g. "tard", "idiot", et al).
- attempt to describe another pilot's flying as lacking <courage / heart / honor / style>
- accuse a individual of using a serious illness of themselves or a family member as an excuse for some perceived offense
- attempt to imply someone is a pervert driving in a "candy van" because I don't agree with their opinion and/or dislike them personally
- accuse someone of participating in a conspiracy to discredit another individual




So tell me then, in your own words, what is the purpose of this thread?
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline SkyRock

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Re: HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?
« Reply #73 on: July 02, 2014, 09:11:09 PM »
Skyrr, if you hadn't typed today that you were proud of HOing, I would have let you have it in this thread... I don't care to debate the definition of HO with you or anyone else... to me, the ki84 shot was a HO...  even though he didnt "nose to shoot" with you,  right after that film, you attempted to HO me, I rolled out of it and caught a MG in the wing from you... just an hour or so ago I rolled out of a HO from you but lost a flap in the process... I don't care if you HO or not, but I do not like people who fly straight at someone and fire, and end up hitting them at the "high deflection" point and claim they weren't HOing... its lame and dishonest... if you take head on shots, then embrace it... but to constantly try and act like others don't know what a frickin HO is only makes you look foolish...  :aok

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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?
« Reply #74 on: July 02, 2014, 09:47:01 PM »


So tell me then, in your own words, what is the purpose of this thread?


In my own words, the purpose of this thread is here made by others, to foolishly take up Skuzzy & HTC's time moderating this fiasco, when they could have been using their limited time more wisely on more important projects and parts of the game that truly needs their undivided attention!






Heya Skyrock,
I watched that video that skyyr posted........ I could plainly see a ki84plane ( player ) who was either busy in the real world or afk, and was flying straight ( perhaps on autopilot ? )

in which skyyr made a slight lead turn and took a right front quarter shot at the ki84 cowling................ as skyyr looked back , you see the ki84 eventually make an irratic maneuver as if they had just sit back down at their computer ( or rapidly grabbed their controller and yanked it to evade )

That is what I observed from the film...... Hell, I have been on both ends of that same type of engagement either being the one attacking a plane that is AFK( pilotless ) or being the one with the plane on autopilot and watching my plane being tore up by bullets as I am trying to sit back down at the PC.......... ROFL...


As for whatever grudge any of you in this thread might have had with someone else in some other game that doesn't exist anymore...... all of you should forget about the past! and if it doesn't involve you directly, you should not be dragging other players names into it, for it is no ones place except the certain individuals involved......

GTFU   and go shoot some red icon planes in the Aces High skies!

<S>
TC
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC