HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?

[xPoisonx]

[kappa]

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No no.. I think this thread has made a new topic... like.. How can a person that has played this game for 10years be so bad?

[LCADolby]

On page 6 there was something I picked up on. Skyyr mentioned that he wasn't bringing any grudges with him. Considering the omission that he has a long term plan to remove bruv from his high horse I call BS. As always with Skyyr the truth differs from the tripe falling out of his mouth.

[SkyRock]

You seem to imply that all forward shots are hot passes/head-ons/h2h/whatever - they, in fact, are not; and there is a reason there is different terminology.

You may dislike front-quarter shots - that's fine, simply don't call it a HO if you didn't have a guns solution when I pulled the trigger and I think we'll all get along just fine.

Wow... and you proved my point with not only your foot in your mouth, but your whole damn leg...    there has not been one time you went for your "front-quarter shot" that I couldn't have shot you right in the face had I chose to do so..  and that is where you come off foolish... treating everyone else like they don't know what HO's are...  and for the record, I don't necessarily dislike front quarter shots/HOs... I just find them boring... and in your case, a sign that your air combat gaming skills are lacking... you know, your last resort "I've run out of enough E to run or attempt another rope" HO's....  

[Skyyr]

Wow... and you proved my point with not only your foot in your mouth, but your whole damn leg...    there has not been one time you went for your "front-quarter shot" that I couldn't have shot you right in the face had I chose to do so

Of course you'll claim that; it'd negate your whole argument if you didn't. However, you (and yours) all make the undeniably obvious lead-turn/angles maneuver when you approach a head-on. It's so blatantly obvious where you're going and what you're going to do that it simply presents a missed shot opportunity if not taken. So claim that you "could" have shot me if you wanted to, the fact is that you haven't and therefore, without proof that you actually maintained a guns-solution without pulling the trigger, it's nothing more than your opinion vs mine.

Also, it's fairly contradictory to claim that someone's skills are lacking while in the same breath criticizing them for killing/shooting someone on the first pass. I mean, if your "air combat skills" are so superior, why then does it matter what I do? Oh, wait - it shows a lack of skill, even though you're the who's damaged and/or dead. Ah, I see - another one of the "it's not about the win" arguments...

You do realize that front-quarter passes are now part of current USAF fighter doctrine, right? There's a reason why merges are taught to have near-zero deflection and not the lead-turn merge that you seem so fond of.

[Zerstorer]

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Sorry...... ..couldn't help myself!

[Zerstorer]

No no.. I think this thread has made a new topic... like.. How can a person that has played this game for 10years be so bad?

Ah yes...here they come. When one cant actually argue the point logically...the insults come out. Standard procedure right out of that trolling post Jugger made on the private forum, eh? What was it..."Never, ever let the lowly noobs win. Never admit you are wrong!" Or something similar?

Next up should be the mass posts from the rest of the squad.  

[TheCrazyOrange]

My take on this so far is that everyone arguing with Skyyrr and Fulcrum are the real losers.

Skyyrr obviously is out to troll, and Fulcrum would clearly back I him up if he were involved with Watergate.

I'm out. Fly how you like, say what you want, argue as you please; clearly nobody is changing anyone else's mind.

[The Fugitive]

I refer to this thread http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,362889.0.html, in which I propose a rule code to make the MA more the way many players SAY they want it to be, with enough enforcement teeth for these rules to actually MEAN something. Not a single player voted aye on it. So I'm a little vexed that anyone complains about HOs in the MA when *not a single player* AFAIK is willing to embrace an actual enforced rule against HOing in the MA.

It's not ideology-The MA IS what it IS, random in how fair a chance you get, and virtually everyone in there will do everything in their power to make sure that you get an UNFAIR chance. I have been picked, double-teamed and flat ganged, and HO'd since day one, and continue to be whenever I allow it to happen. I have often had far maneuverable aircraft dive on my six, also a situation which doesn't really count as fair, yet no one bats an eye.

Probably everyone opining on "cheap" tactics on this thread in fact, has done some of these things, and will do them again in the future

If I out-turn a 190-A8 in an Fm2 because my machine turns better, no one has a problem with it. If he runs away, turns around and shoots me in the face coming back because he is faster has much greater firepower, then he is just an awful human being?   To me that sort of double-standard makes no sense in an arena where by design aircraft with all manner of different strengths and weaknesses clash constantly.

So I make this challenge to the board: Accept my proposal for rules in the MA. Cold merges, 1v1s, no running, fights to the finish gentlemen, with these rules enforceable by temporary and permanent bans for violators caught on film. OR, if you find these rules and their logical implications unacceptable, if you continue to endorse the MA being as it is through inaction if nothing else, then please do shut off the flow of mostly hypocritical horsedung about supposed fairness and honor or lack thereof, of both tactics and individuals. In particular, no individual can be considered dishonored for violating a rule they have not agreed to follow and which in reality is only an opinion/preference of some other vocal individual.

Why do you even bring up that thread? It was one of the poorest attempts at a troll ever.

[Zerstorer]

Skyyrr obviously is out to troll, and Fulcrum would clearly back I him up if he were involved with Watergate.

[SkyRock]

Of course you'll claim that; it'd negate your whole argument if you didn't. However, you (and yours) all make the undeniably obvious lead-turn/angles maneuver when you approach a head-on. It's so blatantly obvious where you're going and what you're going to do that it simply presents a missed shot opportunity if not taken. So claim that you "could" have shot me if you wanted to, the fact is that you haven't and therefore, without proof that you actually maintained a guns-solution without pulling the trigger, it's nothing more than your opinion vs mine.

 well, again, you are re-acting just as I said you would... foolishly...
you see, I don't have to resort to posting videos of me picking people, or come on here and blather on about how I know more acm than others to somehow try to convince people I know how to fight... people know I can "fight" in game, because I do... people know me because of my acm, not because I talk about it...  

Also, it's fairly contradictory to claim that someone's skills are lacking while in the same breath criticizing them for killing/shooting someone on the first pass. I mean, if your "air combat skills" are so superior, why then does it matter what I do? Oh, wait - it shows a lack of skill, even though you're the who's damaged and/or dead. Ah, I see - another one of the "it's not about the win" arguments...

and apparently the only way you can muster any damage on me is to blow by at 550 guns blazing praying to allah that something hits and then running like hell back to ack?  

You do realize that front-quarter passes are now part of current USAF fighter doctrine, right? There's a reason why merges are taught to have near-zero deflection and not the lead-turn merge that you seem so fond of.

again, acting as if no one but you knows anything about air combat tactics... next time I talk with Robert... yes Robert Shaw, I'll tell him to look you up, maybe you can enlighten him with some of your ACM prowess..  

[SkyRock]

Ah yes...here they come. When one cant actually argue the point logically...the insults come out. Standard procedure right out of that trolling post Jugger made on the private forum, eh? What was it..."Never, ever let the lowly noobs win. Never admit you are wrong!" Or something similar?

Next up should be the mass posts from the rest of the squad.  

I'll give you a little advice bud... folks in glass houses shouldn't cast stones... 

[Skyyr]

 well, again, you are re-acting just as I said you would... foolishly...

Ah, go for the ad-hominem attack instead of addressing the actual core issue. Typical.

and apparently the only way you can muster any damage on me is to blow by at 550 guns blazing praying to allah that something hits and then running like hell back to ack?  

Really? I'm pretty sure I lit you up numerous times yesterday morning, one time while Kruel roped you like a champ. Of course, your next response will just claim sarcasm on your part, failure to comprehend your own sense of sarcasm on my part, or something involving cheap wingman tactics (even though it we both had them at the time).  

again, acting as if no one but you knows anything about air combat tactics... next time I talk with Robert... yes Robert Shaw, I'll tell him to look you up, maybe you can enlighten him with some of your ACM prowess..  

Ah, yet another completely illogical response, bordering on the ad-hominem. Nowhere did I claim you knew nothing about ACM - on the contrary, you were the one that claimed I showed a lack of "air combat skills" and by extension, showed a lack of ACM. Interesting - you're guilty of the very thing you've accused me of. We call that hypocrisy in most circles. You then follow it up with a halfway-relevant reference to Robert Shaw, who is not an active combat pilot (I in no way mean any disrespect towards him - on the contrary, it's simply that tactics have drastically changed with modern jets and weapons and we are speaking directly about modern jets and tactics, in this case).

[Zerstorer]

I'll give you a little advice bud... folks in glass houses shouldn't cast stones... 

Glass houses?  I respond in kind to whatever is thrown out...feel free to check.

I gave up on taking the high road a while ago.

[xPoisonx]

Sorry...... ..couldn't help myself!

Although I may have a different view of the game I find it funny so many people arguing over this. It's your 15$ do what you want with it.