Mustang

[Vraciu]

  Now I am trying to press it even harder (too much?) and the results are not good as yet.   (Undisciplined flying perhaps, something you can I'll afford in the Pony.)

Ill afford.

Stupid autoincorrect.

[BnZs]

I have searched for awhile for anything the Mustang does better than most which is useful in dogfights. Havent found anything.

[Schen]

Can't fly the damned thing for toffee, not to say I am any good in anything else, but the PonyD

450mph to stall in one gentle flat turn, compresses like hell, guns are dreadful, only saving grace is the nice RAF skins.

Much happier in the Pony B for some reason.

Simply cannot BnZ in anything

Rcaf skin 

[Vraciu]

I have searched for awhile for anything the Mustang does better than most which is useful in dogfights. Havent found anything.

Persistence--you CAN run other people out of gas and turn that to advantage.

[The Fugitive]

I have searched for awhile for anything the Mustang does better than most which is useful in dogfights. Havent found anything.

It does a lot of things better than most. It's faster than "most", but sure there are some that are faster. With 6 50cals it packs a better punch than most, but not all. It turns better than most at high speed, but not all.

The key here is the word most. Like a number of other planes, they do some things better than most. A zero turns better than most, an F6F dives better than most. A 38 climbs loaded better than most. The trick is to use those strengths and avoid getting stuck in there weaknesses.

Also, far too many people confuse "real life" ponies with "game" ponies. What we do....or in some of our cases.... TRY to do in this planes is far different than how real pilots flew the real things. I don't think real pilots thru their ponies around like we do, nor did they take the kind of "chances" we do, after all we don't die. That throws another whole element into the flying/fighting we do. You can read "Shaw" and any/every other thing you can get your hands on and while it does relate it doesn't give you the whole story because we can push the envelope so much harder.

That's why you hear stories about "he's cheating, a pony can't do that!!!". Well it can, it just wasn't normal to try it because in real life you would have to be an idiot to try it.

The Mustang IS the great plane many believe it to be. Just like anything else it just takes practice.

[caldera]

Persistence--you CAN run other people out of gas and turn that to advantage.

That's the primary tactic from many Mustang pilots, at least when they don't have a wingman to tag-team you.

[Muzzy]

What I am discovering is that it's a lot harder to saddle up on a con than I am used to, although being more effective with high yo-yo's and such does help considerably. The gun package doesn't lend itself to single-kill crossing shots either, so I have to be more creative with regards to setting up my kills. You really do have to set up speed limits, as I have noticed it is very easy to get caught on the deck with no easy way out. The Mustang does work great in open air engagements where you have lots of room to run, but knife fights are really dangerous.

All of this pretty much confirms what you all have been saying of course.

[BnZs]

It turns better than most at high speed, but not all.

How many times do I have to explain that this belief is false before the forumites begin to grasp basic aerodynamics? Turn rate and radius is defined by velocity and G loading. Given the same airspeed and G loading, ANY and ALL aircraft will have same rate and radius of turn. A Pony, a Spit, a Corsair, a Hellcat, a Yak, an La, a P-38, an Fm2, whatever, they will all be turning the same when riding the 6g blackout limit at 350 mph, for instance. And all of the above will begin to turn better than the Aces High P-51 as speeds drop and turn performance becomes lift-limited rather than G-limited.

Also, far too many people confuse "real life" ponies with "game" ponies.

I'm fairly certain the real life Pony wasn't handily out-turned by the P-47. If it had been I expect pilots would have noticed. In point of fact they noticed the opposite. But a non-porked P51D would either be at least 50% of the planes seen in the MA or would have to carry a perk price to control its numbers. It is what it is. If you love the Pony in AHI, you deal with the fact that it has almost no inherent advantages in engaged maneuvering and you simply have to take advantage of any mistakes the other pilot makes.

The Mustang IS the great plane many believe it to be. Just like anything else it just takes practice.

In what way is it great? Multiple non-perked contenders can take the speed crown from it at typical MA alts, it's hard to find many 1945 fighters that DON'T climb better than the P-51D, and of single seat fighters, only the 190 series has a larger sustained radius. The fact that the P-51D carries ENY 5 alongside the SpitfireXVI and La7 is an absurdity.

[BnZs]

That's the primary tactic from many Mustang pilots, at least when they don't have a wingman to tag-team you.

Wingman tactics convert a top speed advantage from something not particularly useful for fighting into something that can be quite decisive for "drag and bag". 

The other major reason why "speed is life"-the ability to close on bandits from the rear quarter and kill them before they know you are there, and conversely, the low probability of a slower plane being able to close on a faster plane from the rear for a surprise attack-isn't as much of a factor in the MA, due to icons.

[BnZs]

The Mustang does work great in open air engagements where you have lots of room to run, but knife fights are really dangerous.

All of this pretty much confirms what you all have been saying of course.

The Mustang can sometimes do surprisingly well at saddling up, almost certainly because people are astonished by the sight of one making a pass at less than 400mph, not because it will turn well. IF, that is, the opponent chooses some sort of flat scissoring or nose-down fight. Many airplanes will leave the Pony's nose stuck in lag QUICK if they use a sustained horizontal or climbing turn. (There are so many times this has happened to me, only to rejoice because seemingly for no reason the opponent reverses his turn direction, putting me back in the game.)

But "saddling up" leaves the Pony excruciatingly vulnerable if there are ANY other bandits anywhere in sight.

The P-51D is a lot like a .223 varmint rifle-Very accurate, but it can be lacking in stopping power. You'll send a lot of planes home engine-smoked and/or PWed. In a close scissors where killing/damaging on a crossing snapshot at point blank is vital to winning, she'll frequently break your heart and have you wishing for Hispanos or taters.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/hsadbmk8ehqzn4s/spitLeft.ahf

[katanaso]

Muzzy, if you haven't done so, put your guns at the same convergence point to maximize the hits in one area.  Personally, I have them all at 200 yards, as it suits my style, but whatever distance you're comfortable with.

I have a lot of films, so if you're interested, I'll find time this weekend to post the 51 vs. various-plane fights.  Just let me know.

[Vraciu]

Well said all around Bonez. 

[The Fugitive]

blah, blah, blah real life....

It's funny how I can out turn a NIK with a 51. Its a game. To many of these guys are so tied up in what a plane did in real life that that is what they think it should do in the game. Again, we push things a lot farther in here and the guy that pushes the hardest with out making a mistake is going to be thew winner in most fight.

I'm fairly certain the real life Pony wasn't handily out-turned by the P-47. If it had been I expect pilots would have noticed. In point of fact they noticed the opposite. But a non-porked P51D would either be at least 50% of the planes seen in the MA or would have to carry a perk price to control its numbers. It is what it is. If you love the Pony in AHI, you deal with the fact that it has almost no inherent advantages in engaged maneuvering and you simply have to take advantage of any mistakes the other pilot makes.

Again every plane has its advantages and its bad spots. If everyone took the time to learn the pony yes you would see a crap load of ponys. You will admit that the 262 has better speed than the pony, better guns than the pony yet the pony has 13 kills on the 262 this month. It's not what the plane can do, but what YOU can do with the plane.

In what way is it great? Multiple non-perked contenders can take the speed crown from it at typical MA alts, it's hard to find many 1945 fighters that DON'T climb better than the P-51D, and of single seat fighters, only the 190 series has a larger sustained radius. The fact that the P-51D carries ENY 5 alongside the SpitfireXVI and La7 is an absurdity.

AGAIN each plane has its strengths and weaknesses. The pony is fast, climbs well, carries a lot of ord, has long legs and with 6 50cals good hitting power. Is it the best plane, no, but nobody said it was, but all around its a great plane. And to show what a well flown pony can do, I'll post this film again.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/5c72lgl1q7992wh/51lulz.ahf

[BnZs]

It's funny how I can out turn a NIK with a 51. Its a game.

You cannot actually "out-turn" a N1K with a P-51 unless the N1K driver makes a gross mistake, such as being way over his corner velocity while you are nearer yours. This is a fairly common error of course, but it does not change the fact that Pony is at a disadvantage in a turning dogfight vs. a N1K, as well as most other aircraft in the game. The laws are physics are not up for debate, and Hitech has modeled these laws well. Speaking of physics, I see you aren't defending your completely erroneous statement about the Pony "turning better" at "high speed"...this is progress for you!

AGAIN each plane has its strengths and weaknesses. The pony is fast, climbs well, carries a lot of ord, has long legs and with 6 50cals good hitting power. Is it the best plane, no, but nobody said it was, but all around its a great plane. And to show what a well flown pony can do, I'll post this film again.

"Carrying Ord"-Does not help you win dogfight. In fact it is highly recommended you jettison any ord you may be carrying before attempting to dogfight.  

"Long legs"-Again toting a bunch of fuel around is helpful in many ways, but it does not help you win a dogfight, in point of fact too much of it is a definite handicap in a fight.

"Fast"-Speed is of limited usefulness in engaged maneuvering, though it does allow one to choose one's engagements to a certain extent. High top speed means you may have an energy advantage at the outset of the dogfight, and that is about it. When an airplane has a relatively low power/weight ratio, as the Pony does, this energy advantage will fade quickly while dogfighting. And many, many airplanes are about as fast or faster at typical MA alts-La7, P-47M, 190D9, 109K4, Yak9U....Moreover, all of these planes except the D9 also turn better than the AH P-51.

"Climbs well"-Relative to WHAT? Early war planes? The second most common airplane in the LWMA, the SpitXVI, has an over ONE THOUSAND fpm climb rate advantage over the Pony. The La7, the third in our trio of ENY 5 airplanes, also has a 1000fpm advantage over the Pony at typical MA alts. The Pony's late war German opposition, the D9 and 109K4 *also* greatly out-climb it. Its late war Japanese counterpart, the Ki-84, pwns the Pony in climb at typical MA alt, while the N1K out-climbs it below 8K and climbs about as well up to 12, which is once again typical MA altitudes. The Yak9U climbs about as well or better at typical MA alts, while the Yak3 stomps on the Pony in climb rate at those alts. The P38J/L outclimbs the Pony, so does the P-47M. The above list is a roll call of common planes in the LWMA and *every one of them* beats the P-51D in climb rate at typical MA alts. Even the F4U-1 series, which indeed has a worse steady climb rate than the P-51D, will tend to stick with it in the vertical because of their zooming ability, while also having much greater maneuverability than the Mustang.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/5c72lgl1q7992wh/51lulz.ahf

Really? This is the film you're showing to back up your point?   I do not know what you think is unusual or contradictory to what I have to say here, unless it is some incompetent Spit drivers attempting to go head-on with BigR and losing in the first part of the film. Actually what this film demonstrates best is how gunnery is the most important skill...since the guy has no need to "saddle up" to kill, the deficiencies of the P-51 matter less.

Put this guy in practically any other late-war plane, a P-47M for instance and he'd be even more lethal. Kudos to the pilot, the plane remains mediocre.

Here you go. This SpitIX still had to screw up badly to manage losing a fight to a P-51, but was slightly less of a lemming than the two spit drivers in the first part of the film you posted. Still, the only thing demonstrated is that a P-51D has guns and can sometimes shoot the opponent if he manages his advantages poorly.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/qlri58eybwrrxy7/p51spitIX.ahf

The same thing can be said about the fight with this Spit109Fire,  , albeit if he had possessed Hispanos instead of a single MG 151 it would have been over early anyway.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/8pp6n6fx6ak7ng7/P51D109Fritz.ahf

[Cremator]

Have you tried the B model? Puma introduced me to it here a couple weeks ago.  I found it to be much smoother, faster and agile than the D. It seemed to me to fly like I always assumed a mustang to be like. That thing is a rocket ship. I employed the same tactics I did in the D model but it seemed to get the nose around easier and gain e easier which helped in the slashing attacks.

Theres still several planes ive never flown and all that was stated above is solely my opinion as I don't know the stats of the two given planes. In southern boy terminology:

"Man the 51b is like the 51d just souped up and handles better."