Author Topic: Mustang  (Read 6456 times)

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17859
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: Mustang
« Reply #75 on: July 15, 2014, 03:57:00 PM »
Oh, flying "stupid" can definitely be more fun in the P-51D, especially when you manage to win a dogfight in what amounts to a handicap plane.  :aok

I'm still eagerly waiting for someone to post about the thing the P-51D does really well that will make it very lethal to an equal pilot dogfighting you in a Spits, 109, and Hog etc., techniques that will let me out-dogfight Flyman's K4 and all that. If such a thing exists I'd love to know about it. So far there have been many shouts of "The Pony is a good plane!" but nothing of substance about WHY it might be a good plane for dogfighting. And the craziest film examples of envelope-pushing in the Mustang have all been posted by me, ironically enough.

This is where you are either being obtuse, or just not on the same wave length as the rest of us. In the game MOST players are not EQUAL. 90 times out of 100 you can fly a pony like you would a spit against another spit and you will win the fight. Same goes for against a 109K4 or any other planer. There are very few that fly the planes to the edge of their limits. Too many people, like your self go by what the book says, and so they will enter a fight with a NIK and get a bit slow and ....because a pony cant turn with a NIK.... RU........ err extend. But knowing the pony and how well it can actually turn, and slow for over shoots, and recover from a stall quickly you CAN fight a NIK with out RU..... err extending.

You can type pages and pages of info with sources and numbers and "facts" compiled with all the data you can muster but I KNOW I can out turn some NIK as well as spits, because I KNOW most players don't have a clue how to fight the plane they are flying as so I can take advantage of that.

This is what the rest of us are talking about, not the stats page, or the test flight data, just regular old game play.

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: Mustang
« Reply #76 on: July 15, 2014, 04:24:29 PM »
You know what's adorable Fug? The way in which you run your mouth without knowing a thing about me, in a manner which makes it obvious you have not watched a single film I have posted to this thread. Almost as adorable as your simultaneous ignorance of basic aerodynamics combined with your vehemence in while expounding on fallacy. Makes me smile :)
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17859
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: Mustang
« Reply #77 on: July 15, 2014, 04:27:20 PM »
You know what's adorable Fug? The way in which you run your mouth without knowing a thing about me, in a manner which makes it obvious you have not watched a single film I have posted to this thread. Almost as adorable as your simultaneous ignorance of basic aerodynamics combined with your vehemence in while expounding on fallacy. Makes me smile :)

ahhhh so your being deliberately obtuse. Have it your way you are once again right and everyone else in this thread is wrong.

Carry on.

Offline morfiend

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10435
Re: Mustang
« Reply #78 on: July 15, 2014, 04:31:28 PM »
 BnZ, no offence but the OP was asking for tips and techniques on flying the 51.

  Not once did he ask if it was better than or the best at anything he was just looking to improve his flying abilities.  Somewhere you came in and changed the discussion to how bad or mediocre the 51 is and that almost any plane can beat it in a dogfight.

  Whether or not this is true is debatable,IRL the 51 was said to be not as good as a spit but could be not as good over Berlin while the spit could barely cross the channel!In AH this really isnt a factor except in events where the added range can be a real asset.

  BnZ,you seem to want to break it down to almost a duel situation or 1v1 yet conveniently forget that it's often many V many in the MA and events and this is where the ponies and FW's can shine despite their "lack" of....  {use your term as required}

  TonyJ quite correctly pointed this out already and I would add that if flown to it's strengths,while this may be boring to some,the 51 is more than a match for any plane. Of course the same could be said for many of the planes but again even I'm straying off point and thats simple that the OP would like to improve on his abilities in the 51!


    :salute

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: Mustang
« Reply #79 on: July 15, 2014, 04:31:52 PM »
Btw, ever listen to any Kanye? He's another proud non-reader of books, trusts his feelings over those pesky facts and logic. You two would get on famously ;)
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline TonyJoey

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1953
Re: Mustang
« Reply #80 on: July 15, 2014, 04:46:13 PM »
BnZ you're missing the point Fugi is trying to communicate. You're fighting human pilots who make mistakes, not computers who fly perfect and make the best decision every time. If two computers fought each other 51 vs. K4 it would probably be a stalemate as the 51 would extend as it should when the fight gets too slow where the K4 will win. However, because we're fighting other people we can often fight the pilot just as much as the plane . I've gone toe to toe many times with Flyman's, Latrobe's, Grizz's <insert uber 109 stick here> many times and have held my own in the 51. You have to get a bit creative, but there is no need to go into the fight thinking you've already lost because a 109 is better on paper. Come in to the merge with a couple notches of flaps already down for a quick angles advantage and quick kill if they get careless. If they go vertical, depending on the merge you might get a good tracking shot, or just maybe pop off a quick burst to let them know you're there before breaking off and resetting. Remerge again with the flaps down and try for a shot again. If the fight gets slow, simply use your top speed to reset. Next time come in full bore with WEP and go for an energy merge, where you have a large chance of catching them off guard and getting above them, at which point you hold all the cards. At any point in this type of engagement, if the 109 gets careless even once you have a good chance of killing him. You just have to be patient and not get sucked slow for too long.


Offline Randy1

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4216
Re: Mustang
« Reply #81 on: July 15, 2014, 04:46:41 PM »
The last two fighter tour winners flew mustangs for the most part.  Didn't Paladin win the tour before Tony Joey's win?  Paladin is super sharp in the mustang and as a side note a really nice person to fly with in the MA.

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: Mustang
« Reply #82 on: July 15, 2014, 04:53:52 PM »
Morf:  I also posted multiple films of a P51 dogfighting more maneuverable planes, and one film that is practically a "how to manual" on boom and zoom tactics ;) I also discussed the sort of mistakes a P51 pilot can look for in the opposition and the pitfalls a Mustang can run into...heh.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14124
Re: Mustang
« Reply #83 on: July 15, 2014, 05:20:05 PM »
You know what's adorable Fug? The way in which you run your mouth without knowing a thing about me, in a manner which makes it obvious you have not watched a single film I have posted to this thread. Almost as adorable as your simultaneous ignorance of basic aerodynamics combined with your vehemence in while expounding on fallacy. Makes me smile :)

:lol

Pwnage.
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
- THE DAMNED -
King of the Hill Champ Tour 219 - Win Percentage 100
"1v1 Skyyr might be the best pilot ever to play the game." - Via PM, Name Redacted

Offline morfiend

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10435
Re: Mustang
« Reply #84 on: July 15, 2014, 05:25:24 PM »
Morf:  I also posted multiple films of a P51 dogfighting more maneuverable planes, and one film that is practically a "how to manual" on boom and zoom tactics ;) I also discussed the sort of mistakes a P51 pilot can look for in the opposition and the pitfalls a Mustang can run into...heh.

  Fair enough,although I didnt get a chance to view the films!

     What I dont understand is why the agenda?  It appears you think the eny is wrong on the 51 and if thats the case there are forums for that.


  Again I find myself straying off topic,this should be the case in the Help forum!



     :salute

 PS: the post above mine is totally uncalled for,this is help and training not the GD forum.

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14124
Re: Mustang
« Reply #85 on: July 15, 2014, 05:33:01 PM »
BnZ you're missing the point Fugi is trying to communicate. You're fighting human pilots who make mistakes, not computers who fly perfect and make the best decision every time. If two computers fought each other 51 vs. K4 it would probably be a stalemate as the 51 would extend as it should when the fight gets too slow where the K4 will win. However, because we're fighting other people we can often fight the pilot just as much as the plane . I've gone toe to toe many times with Flyman's, Latrobe's, Grizz's <insert uber 109 stick here> many times and have held my own in the 51. You have to get a bit creative, but there is no need to go into the fight thinking you've already lost because a 109 is better on paper. Come in to the merge with a couple notches of flaps already down for a quick angles advantage and quick kill if they get careless. If they go vertical, depending on the merge you might get a good tracking shot, or just maybe pop off a quick burst to let them know you're there before breaking off and resetting. Remerge again with the flaps down and try for a shot again. If the fight gets slow, simply use your top speed to reset. Next time come in full bore with WEP and go for an energy merge, where you have a large chance of catching them off guard and getting above them, at which point you hold all the cards. At any point in this type of engagement, if the 109 gets careless even once you have a good chance of killing him. You just have to be patient and not get sucked slow for too long.


I went to the DA to train with one of the best fighter pilots in this game last week (someone you might not expect it to be).  He offered to help me learn.   Guy has killed me in the MA 1000 times already so I was glad for the offer.

We fought Pony against Pony several times.    Then he went into different planes and situations.  Zeke, Spit, 38, 109, Hawg.  Co-E, advantaged, disadvantaged.  He taught me some defensive tactics I need to work on.

His assessment: "You are a really good at turn fighting a Pony, you manage E very very well, and have exceptional SA."

(He also noted that DA skills don't translate to the MA in a direct manner.   Which is true, as noted above by others.)

My hardest fights against him were in his 38.  The Zeke and Spit were hard to hit but I had what some call "contempt of engagement"--I didn't have to fight if I didn't want to.  The most success I had was Pony vs Pony.  Hawg was a near stalemate--I lost.

My gunnery is atrocious at times as I don't lead enough and there are many times I am a fraction of available G short of pulling guns onto the target.

The key to success in the Mustang is the setup. TJ and Fess are exceptional at this.  You can turn fight it all day long and still lose.  I do it often, sadly.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 05:39:52 PM by Vraciu »
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
- THE DAMNED -
King of the Hill Champ Tour 219 - Win Percentage 100
"1v1 Skyyr might be the best pilot ever to play the game." - Via PM, Name Redacted

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14124
Re: Mustang
« Reply #86 on: July 15, 2014, 05:34:18 PM »


 PS: the post above mine is totally uncalled for,this is help and training not the GD forum.


Point your "GD" invective at Fugitive then.   Thank you.  Bonez is asking good questions that only TJ seems to be answering.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 05:51:03 PM by Vraciu »
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
- THE DAMNED -
King of the Hill Champ Tour 219 - Win Percentage 100
"1v1 Skyyr might be the best pilot ever to play the game." - Via PM, Name Redacted

Offline morfiend

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10435
Re: Mustang
« Reply #87 on: July 15, 2014, 05:38:41 PM »
.

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17859
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: Mustang
« Reply #88 on: July 15, 2014, 06:19:18 PM »
.

Best comment yet Morph, I ignore them too  :)

When a man believes he is ALWAYS right he is very often blind to other views.

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14124
Re: Mustang
« Reply #89 on: July 15, 2014, 06:27:09 PM »
Best comment yet Morph, I ignore them too  :)

When a man believes he is ALWAYS right he is very often blind to other views.

^^^ Case in point.   Enough with the insults, veiled or otherwise.   It is a tired, limp shtick.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 06:39:39 PM by Vraciu »
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
- THE DAMNED -
King of the Hill Champ Tour 219 - Win Percentage 100
"1v1 Skyyr might be the best pilot ever to play the game." - Via PM, Name Redacted