Mustang

[Vraciu]

Feeling lonely? Got to stick your nose in where it doesn't belong. At least Bonez post were marginally on topic. Welcome to the ignore list.

So much for the "Help" part.   (I have always found announcing ignoring someone rather strange, in and of itself.)

Okay.  Back to the subject at hand. 

[BnZs]

 Fair enough,although I didnt get a chance to view the films!

Muzzy mentioned having a difficult learning curve with the Mustang, I said that this was probably because the airplane is fairly mediocre in several respects, someone repeated a widely-held fallacy about some airplanes "turning better" at high speed and blackout Gs, plus other non-logical noise and it spiraled out of control from there...

Also, if anyone really knows "the thing the Pony does really well in a dogfight", something akin to the Hog's scissors or the P-38's vertical performance, mayhaps I can bait them into spilling the beans by insulting our favorite plane.  

[BaldEagl]

Point your "GD" invective at Fugitive then.

I'm thinking you misinterpreted General Discussion as something else.

[Vraciu]

I'm thinking you misinterpreted General Discussion as something else.

Nice try, BE.   

[katanaso]

Stop with the pissing match in this thread.

[Vraciu]

Stop with the pissing match in this thread.

I think Fugitive is pissing on BoneZ for no good reason.   He has a Saul Alinsky approach to debate--keep changing the subject.

BoneZ has made some good points.  TJ is the only one addressing them head on.

[morfiend]

I'm thinking you misinterpreted General Discussion as something else.

  TY Bald!




   

[BnZs]

If the fight gets slow, simply use your top speed to reset. Next time come in full bore with WEP and go for an energy merge, where you have a large chance of catching them off guard and getting above them, at which point you hold all the cards. At any point in this type of engagement, if the 109 gets careless even once you have a good chance of killing him. You just have to be patient and not get sucked slow for too long.

But isn't the Kurt as fast or faster at all altitudes, and a much better accelerator?

I can dive away I suppose, but wouldn't that put me lower upon coming back to the Kurt while flying an airplane that doesn't climb well? Also terra firma puts a limit on that diving stuff eventually.

[Vraciu]

  TY Bald!




    

Nice stretch.  Don't pull a muscle.

You said "GD Forums" when you should have said "GF Forums" or "GD Forum".    Your meaning was clear.  Unveiled. You had an opportunity to correct it after I quoted you and did not.

I will get a Rule 4 and you will be given a pass, per par.

[katanaso]

Muzzy mentioned having a difficult learning curve with the Mustang, I said that this was probably because the airplane is fairly mediocre in several respects, someone repeated a widely-held fallacy about some airplanes "turning better" at high speed and blackout Gs, plus other non-logical noise and it spiraled out of control from there...

Also, if anyone really knows "the thing the Pony does really well in a dogfight", something akin to the Hog's scissors or the P-38's vertical performance, mayhaps I can bait them into spilling the beans by insulting our favorite plane.  

"Really well?"  Probably just the ability to pull from lag to lead for a shot, if it's there, using the flaps.

Most other things fall into the "Fair to decent" category.

[katanaso]

Here are a bunch of films versus different planes, wins, losses, and draws.

I don't remember all of them, but the c202 was PotNPans, and the 47M was Bruv.

I have many more that I named for a particular fight, but I've never gone through and stripped the fight out of them.  Good intentions, short on time.

(Just added one more)


www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-109k4.ahf
www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-109g14.ahf
www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-109G6.ahf
www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-38j.ahf
www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-38j_2.ahf
www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-3cons.ahf
www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-51d.ahf
www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-c202.ahf
www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-f6f.ahf
www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-la7.ahf
www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-la7_2.ahf
www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-n1k2.ahf
www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-p38g.ahf
www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-p47m.ahf
www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-spit16.ahf
www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-spit8.ahf
www.fingerpicked.com/AcesHigh/films/51d/51d-ta152.ahf

[The Fugitive]

Thanks Mir  <S>

[katanaso]

Thanks Mir  <S>

Anytime  <S>

[TonyJoey]

But isn't the Kurt as fast or faster at all altitudes, and a much better accelerator?

I can dive away I suppose, but wouldn't that put me lower upon coming back to the Kurt while flying an airplane that doesn't climb well? Also terra firma puts a limit on that diving stuff eventually.
(Image removed from quote.)

But that advantage is largely balanced out by the fact that you are choosing when to disengage. He has to react to you and often still has to go through a turn or entire rolling scissor before he is able to give chase. By then you are already 1-2k away and building up speed. That is why I agreed wholeheartedly with bozon's original post in this thread:

The speed of the Mustang is what allows it to be aggressive. The good stang pilots are very aggressive when they have the advantage. At the same time they know to recognize the moment at which the tide has turned against them and go runstag mode again. The ability to escape is what should give you the confidence to engage. Too many players do not know how to switch between the two mind sets.

Developing the ability to quickly and accurately analyze the situation mid-fight is invaluable as a Pony driver, as you can tell when the bandit is getting angles and it is time to disengage. If you immediately disengage at this point, you can pretty comfortably get separation and reset the fight, even if he holds a slight speed and acceleration advantage.

And don't get me wrong, you shouldn't expect to win every engagement against planes such as the K4. However, the fight is in no way as one sided as you seem to believe if you truly know the Pony inside and out and mix in some creativity and unexpectedness.

[bozon]

And don't get me wrong, you shouldn't expect to win every engagement against planes such as the K4. However, the fight is in no way as one sided as you seem to believe if you truly know the Pony inside and out and mix in some creativity and unexpectedness.

Oh.. that is very true about unexpectedness. The ponies that get me are the ones that surprise me - I see him coming in with lots of speed as usual, I initiate a lazy turn saving E to blast the pony as he goes by, reverse expecting to see him spill ahead but instead he is there still behind, flaps out and barrel rolling with me... now there an "oh ****!" moment for you. Sustained turns, radius, charts... the 51 will get me before long before they become applicable.

Also, if anyone really knows "the thing the Pony does really well in a dogfight", something akin to the Hog's scissors or the P-38's vertical performance, mayhaps I can bait them into spilling the beans by insulting our favorite plane.  

Many on many engagements do not work out the same as a duel. In a furball, especially against coordinated wingmen, the best dueling moves of the 109K will get it killed fast. Climbing spirals, vertical stalls, slow sustained turns etc are likely to get you killed no matter what you fly, so your plane may as well not reply on them. You do not need a single feature of "the thing the Pony does really well in a dogfight", it is about the whole package. There are no trump cards in a furball, but generally the faster planes and those with better SA prevail and the P51D is good at those. Good, no one said it was the best, quite the opposite.