Author Topic: War Thunder  (Read 7038 times)

Offline Yankee67

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2014, 10:06:55 AM »
Let me get this right: Since its a free to play money, how exactly is the company supposed to fund it if not by charging for better vehicles and planes?

In the micro-transaction version, you get charged for pretty much everything - more ammo, better ammo, better ride, better engine, better crew.  And they have 8 million subscribers.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2014, 10:07:08 AM »
Mister Fork, it's even worse than that.  When you first start playing WT, you're in a rattle trap ride like a rusty (literally) T-28 or pea-shooter plane like a P-26, against Tigers and BF-109's.  And you're stuck in those rides until you either earn enough of the fake coinage to upgrade (in the free version), or swipe your credit card.

They should get a tier system like WoT. But on full realism thered be nobody left then.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2014, 10:08:05 AM »
In the micro-transaction version, you get charged for pretty much everything - more ammo, better ammo, better ride, better engine, better crew.  And they have 8 million subscribers.

Yes but people act like they're supposed to get the full features for free. You get what you pay for.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline guncrasher

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2014, 10:26:43 AM »
Eye candy is essential for marketing (and for many players too). No matter how great simulation models AH has it just can't compete if it's graphically 20 years behind. People nowadays want flashy effects and cinema-like gaming experiences. This puts a huge pressure especially when the new play for free competitors all offer latest generation graphics.

One can question how come they can find a million players that can run the latest graphics (even if at lowest settings) and HTC keeps saying AH can't. The problem may be due to AH being an old niche product, many players are getting old and are not necessarily interested in technology -> won't update their computers. If you would make a 'pictures of players' thread on WT it would probably have teenagers in it, AH has practically pensioners collection :D

the problem with the million "teenagers" is that they dont have money to spend, that's why they gravitate to "free games".  it's the old guys like us with jobs that subsides those "million" players with great graphics.


semp


you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Saxman

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2014, 10:28:58 AM »
I tried it once. My second sortie I got shot at ON SPAWN by one of my own teammates because he didn't want to fly around me. Flew maybe 3-4 sorties altogether. Uninstalled.

It's pretty, but that's about all it's got going for it. Small arenas, queues to wait for a fight, suspect flight modelling, and utter neglect of the more advanced modes. Was a complete waste of my time.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Oldman731

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2014, 11:10:25 AM »
Yes but people act like they're supposed to get the full features for free. You get what you pay for.


Then I guess it isn't really free.

- oldman

Offline HPriller

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2014, 11:18:47 AM »
I regularly play War Thunder and not Aces High for that one simple reason.  It is free to play, and Aces High isn't.  Comparing the two games is really comparing apples and oranges though.  Aces High is much more of a proper simulation with proper flight modeling and historical accuracy, while war thunder comes off like an easy arcade style game.  I'll just state the advantages of each game.

War Thunder advantages:

War Thunder has better graphics by a pretty wide margin.  The details of both the terrain and the aircraft models are downright spectacular.

It's also a lot more instant action friendly.  I can fire up a match almost instantly and they rarely take more than 15 minutes to play in arcade battle settings.  This, coupled with a large active player base ensures you can get a match quickly.  In Aces High I'd be hard pressed to get anything done in 15 minutes, sometimes even finding a fight at all takes longer with the relatively low number of players.

War Thunder has simplistic keyboard and mouse controls, even a small child could play it easily, and I don't need to buy or keep a big unwieldly flightstick on my desk to play it.

The scope of the game larger for War Thunder as far as planes and vehicles.  It has aircraft from the early 1930's ranging up to the Korean war cutoff of 1953, including several postwar Jets.  It's newly released ground mode has tons of tanks and vehicles (presumably to compete with World of Tanks).

Perhaps most importantly, to me, I don't have to maintain a monthly subscription to play War Thunder.  Yes, I've paid for premium account time in the past and other micro transactions to unlock plane slots but now that I've had my account for over a year and I've unlocked most of the planeset and trained most of my crews, there's really no reason I ever have to spend money on the game again and I still retain the ability to play it as much as I want.  Aces High was always hitting my credit card for 15 a month whether or not I even played it on a given month and that got old fast.  It really didn't seem worthwhile if I only played it once or twice during that month.


Aces High advantages:

Aces High is by far the superior simulation, with by far the best flight modeling and damage modeling I've seen in this kind of game.  War Thunder by comparison has a completely nonsensical arcade flight model, that will have bombers like an A-20 pulling 16g turns while a jet like the F-84B gets restricted to 9G.  The damage modeling in war thunder is even more of a joke and varies dramatically from patch to patch.  For example it's not uncommon to saddle up on a 4 engine bomber and unload all 6 of your browning m3 .50 cals into it till the belts are completely gone and have it still fly off to drop it's bombs on your base.

Aces High has huge persistent world maps with long term strategic objectives.  War thunder has instant action team matches with 8-20 players per side, the spawns are in the air and so close together that a fast jet could traverse from one spawn to the other on a smaller map in around 1 minute.   The smaller maps themselves are perhaps only 5 to 10 miles across.

In Aces High you must land to re-arm.  In war thunder depending on the plane, weapons and crew everything reloads in the air.  A heavy bomber will regenerate it's bomb load in as little as 30 seconds, which is less time than it even takes to set up a proper bombing run in most cases.  .50 caliber armed planes will reload their belts in as little as 6 seconds (you can't even fire them out that fast).  However, Aces High doesn't model guns overheating and jamming and you can just hold the trigger down till your guns go dry.  In War Thunder the guns will start to heat up and jam if you fire them continuously for too long.

Aces High doesn't have the nonsense level up and upgrade system that War Thunder has.  Every plane and vehicle in War Thunder has both a crew and several upgrade parts that have to be leveled/unlocked.  These things dramatically affect the overall performance and capability of the plane and have pretty much nothing to do with reality.



In the end, I like both games, both are fun in their own way.  But the one I'm still *playing* is War Thunder, simply because it's free to play and provides a fun gaming experience that can fit into a short timeframe.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 11:24:00 AM by HPriller »

Offline mthrockmor

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2014, 11:42:50 AM »
I read this, many great thoughts and the War Thunder picture is awesome! Imagine that quality of picture with Oculus Rift....it is nearly virtual reality.

Other than these comments I read 'yada yada yada...marketing!'

AH suffers from a lack of marketing. The guess is once they have finished the engine they will ramp up the marketing. I hope.

The next possible step will be, what we call in the corporate world "on-boarding." How do you take someone new to your community and culture and get them with the team? A big deal in the real world. In AH the more common 'on-boarding' experience is learning what "Alt-F4" means. That is almost like 'pull my finger.' Over the past couple years I've read some great ideas on how to 'on-board' "two-weekers" to keep them around.

Step 1, finish the eye candy
Step 2, market the crap out of AH
Step 3, introduce some thoughtful ideas on how to 'on-board' new players.

AH will fly high again: 550 or more sticks flying these huge maps; squad actions; epic missions with 40-70 players almost nightly; a culture that allows you to drag 1 bad guy out of a furball to do a 1v1 without getting picked or horded.

Dare to dream...!

boo
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 11:45:01 AM by mthrockmor »
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2014, 11:57:39 AM »
the problem with the million "teenagers" is that they dont have money to spend, that's why they gravitate to "free games".  it's the old guys like us with jobs that subsides those "million" players with great graphics.


semp




Really? Looks to me like War Thunder is making a few millions of turnover per year. They have decisively more resources than HTC and much higher market value due to high subscriber count so they can get also financing easier. F2P model didn't come out of nowhere.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Ratsy

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2014, 12:03:19 PM »
A thought-provoking post by HPriller.

How does capitalism compete with 'free'?  Mr. Ripley nailed it I think.  There's plenty of examples in modern life where free-loading is encouraged as an ideal.  But somebody has to pay, don't they?

War Thunder's design for player progression is clever...it's not just old guys with jobs that pay the freight, however.  It's anybody who's talent or experience is lacking and a (fostered) belief that tapping your credit card will make you more competitive (arch-baddazz).  It's a market of 'want'.  Yikes.  This hits a personal nerve.  I have great equipment (it's my hobby) but I still am little better than a noob in AH.  I have fun here and I like the community. 

So call me entrenched, I just don't see the need to change.  It also strikes me that War Thunder (and all 'free' games) is VERY vulnerable to the next social media-fueled thing.  It could leave them standing amid a ghost town of server infrastructure?

Mthrockmor - NAILED IT.  On-boarding is a critically correct process for Aces High.  There's a lot of ways this could be done with the existing game engine and new graphics. There is an offline potential here for prospective members.   Then there's a potential for a new, protected, and helpful venue for AH Trainers.  Hazing has no place if you want to keep your operation alive over time.

 :salute





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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2014, 12:29:23 PM »
Let me get this right: Since its a free to play game, how exactly is the company supposed to fund it if not by charging for better vehicles and planes?

It just shows that F2P games aren't really free and games like WoT/WT are basically pay to win games.  Those that shell out the cash will have the advantage over those that don't.

ack-ack
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Offline bustr

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2014, 01:01:12 PM »
Anyone considered this strategy:

At the rate AH is going shedding down vet numbers with aggressive, inhospitable personalities towards two weekers and sqweekers. When AH3 is released along with the new advertising. For the near term, new players will be entering an MA different in it's hostility towards them than in 2007.

Comparing or differing WT and AH is meaningless. In the end the argument gets abused to assert and inflame our insecurities over or self worth due to identifying with our choices. Comparisons between the two games is intellectually unfair. How do you compare your local lake where everyone recreationally rides bicycles around it on weekends and the Tour de France?

We should know better by now and stop falling into this trap. It's too easy to help ourselves act insecure.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Motherland

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2014, 01:10:15 PM »
War thunder= kanye west

Aceshigh = deftones

One has a trillion more "fans" do to outcry, but sucks terribly and is a POS, the other has talent, musicianship, originality, passion, and a true fan base, Yet they are slowely dying and hardly get noticed.

Such as is the world. AcesHigh will privail once more.



Aces High won't take off again because it's full of people who still like deftones and think Kanye West is bad

Offline Tumor

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2014, 01:10:35 PM »
Imagine HT going the same route as WT.  Free to play!  You get the P-40, A6M3, 202, 109E. The K4, P-51, D9 start at $25.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: War Thunder
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2014, 01:15:20 PM »
It just shows that F2P games aren't really free and games like WoT/WT are basically pay to win games.  Those that shell out the cash will have the advantage over those that don't.

ack-ack

Yep but WoT has at least found a pretty good balance - it's not totally unplayable even when played free unlike War Thunder.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone