Ta-152

[Wmaker]

The 152 can dogfight very well, see Junky, Moot, Sukov, Grizz, Irish or Krup flying it. Once you learn to deal with the instability, it becomes quite decent.

It is hilarious how comments on "personal ability" trump natural sciences on this board. It would be so much more constructive if the comments would concentrate on the plane and its attributes instead of the e-peens of the poster and his favorite peers.

...but of course the fundamental problem with that is that it would require a brain...and there in lies the problem...

[bozon]

Reschke flew Fw 190A-8 bomber interceptors before transitioning to the Ta 152.

That explains a lot.

[alpini13]

i thought the post  on the idea that hitech has wisdom and modeling and therefore have done nothing wrong...CLEARLY THE GAME IS BIASED TOWARD THE ALLIES...evidence?  no mid-war or late war luftwaffe bombers, no late war japanese dive bombers or torpedo bombers.....no early war american dive bombers or torpedo bombers....no raf early and mid war carrier aircraft.....no early-mid war p-51..the p-51A....or the earliest p-47 combat aircraft.....the p-47 c-5.     so having alot..not all.....early and mid war axis.....and alot...not all...mid and late war allied,seem to be disproportionate.....but i guess not,if your american and it favors your side,lol

[Lusche]

i thought the post  on the idea that hitech has wisdom and modeling and therefore have done nothing wrong...CLEARLY THE GAME IS BIASED TOWARD THE ALLIES...evidence?  no mid-war or late war luftwaffe bombers, no late war japanese dive bombers or torpedo bombers.....no early war american dive bombers or torpedo bombers....no raf early and mid war carrier aircraft.....no early-mid war p-51..the p-51A....or the earliest p-47 combat aircraft.....the p-47 c-5.     so having alot..not all.....early and mid war axis.....and alot...not all...mid and late war allied,seem to be disproportionate.....but i guess not,if your american and it favors your side,lol

Me 262
Me 163
Arador 234
Ta 152H
Jagdpanther
Tiger II
Ostwind
Wirbelwind

Yes, absolutely no German late war equipment modeled 

[JunkyII]

It is hilarious how comments on "personal ability" trump natural sciences on this board. It would be so much more constructive if the comments would concentrate on the plane and its attributes instead of the e-peens of the poster and his favorite peers.

...but of course the fundamental problem with that is that it would require a brain...and there in lies the problem...

The answer has already been given to the original  question. OP talked about accounts of terrible low level flight.

Less yada,  yada,  yada, and more proof. HTC has been know to adjust setting if and only if good proof can be provided.

Nobody has came with any factual data.

[morfiend]

Me 262
Me 163
Arador 234
Ta 152H
Jagdpanther
Tiger II
Ostwind
Wirbelwind

Yes, absolutely no German late war equipment modeled 

 Lusche,quit making sense,you're ruining a good rant thread with your logic.....shame on you!




   If the OP thinks there is something wrong with the 152,it would help if he explained exactly what is wrong.

  Also I might add Kurt Tank had envisioned the FW190 to be powered by a inline engine but the availability of such engines just werent possible so the LW requested that Tank use and alternative engine and thus the A model was born. I personally dont think the Germans or Tank knew about the B29 when the 152 was being designed!

  I could be wrong on the B29 but I think the 152 was more about outrunning the excorts while being able to down a 4 engine heavy with ease.



   

[JunkyII]

 

  I could be wrong on the B29 but I think the 152 was more about outrunning the excorts while being able to down a 4 engine heavy with ease.



   

This is my understanding as well

[Lusche]

 I personally dont think the Germans or Tank knew about the B29 when the 152 was being designed!

They knew about the 29 for quite some time, and were worried about it.

[bozon]

They knew about the 29 for quite some time, and were worried about it.

They would have been a lot more worried had they known about a certain bomb the 29 would carry.
Losing the ground war saved them from being nuked.

[bustr]

The OP can always show up in the TA around 5-6:30pm pacific coast time where Morfeind will be holding his informal follow me clinic a few days a week. Up a Ta152 and follow Morfeind and shoot at him. Funny how for a slow motion flyer he is very slowly slippery.

I did so. It cannot turn. It cannot run away level. It cannot roll. But, so what. Get it up to speed and it does it's own thing very well. It zooms like a rocket. It dives like a porpoise. You can trade nose for tail at the top very quickly. And at it's speed, can hold a turn just long enough for deflection shooting. Then dive away. Oh! Yes G effects the Mk108 trajectory worse than the two MG151/20 in terms of needing a volume of rounds to get lucky during deflection shooting with some G on. Other wise setting up your shots is one of the skills to master.

Then go to the DA for Ta152 finishing school.

********************************************************

In the translation of the of the report on that tree top level fight with the Tempest, the pilot initially shot with his MG button on his Knueppelgriff KG 13 B. That would have been his MG151/20 circuit to the A-Knopf(A Button). MG were routed to the A-Knopf button in all Luft fighters or, in this case the paired wing root cannon. The engine mounted MK108 was routed to the B 1-Knopf (B 1-button) which was standard practice. One has to wonder in the real world how many kills attributed to the Ta152 were with the MG151/20 with ammo to spray versus the MK108. Very few pilots even liked the HUB cannon mounting of that specific gun as a fighter versus fighter weapon. To over come it's limitations, the quad mounting in the 262 was ideal.

Ta152, Tempest action report.

 We reached the position at an altitude of 200 metres, just at the moment when both Tempests after diving started climbing again. Just as the dogfight was developing Sepp Sattler, on our side, was hit and his plane fell like a stone out of the sky ... The Tempest which I attacked quickly reached the same height as me and was [at] approximately 10 o'clock before me. The dogfight began between 50 and 100 metres above ground level and very often the wing tips passed close over the treetops ... The whole fight was executed in a left-hand turn, the low altitude of which would not allow for any mistakes. Ever so gradually I gained metre-by-metre on the Tempest and after a few circles, I had reached the most favourable shooting position ... I pressed my machine gun buttons[10] for the first time ... I could see the Tempest for a short moment in straight ahead flight displaying slightly erratic flying behaviour. But immediately she went straight back into the left turn ... I sighted the Tempest very favourably in my cross hairs and could not have missed, but my machine guns experienced feeding problems. I therefore tried to shoot it down with my cannon and forced her into a tight left-hand turn from where she tipped out over her right wing and crashed into a forest

[lyric1]

I personally dont think the Germans or Tank knew about the B29 when the 152 was being designed!
I could be wrong on the B29 but I think the 152 was more about outrunning the excorts while being able to down a 4 engine heavy with ease.



   

From this book.


http://www.rzm.com/books/ee/ee013.cfm

[morfiend]

From this book.


http://www.rzm.com/books/ee/ee013.cfm

   Colour me embarrassed.....

  I've read alot on Tank and the FW's in general and didnt recall ever seeing the B29 mentioned specifically.

 



   

[Rich46yo]

i thought the post  on the idea that hitech has wisdom and modeling and therefore have done nothing wrong...CLEARLY THE GAME IS BIASED TOWARD THE ALLIES...evidence?  no mid-war or late war luftwaffe bombers, no late war japanese dive bombers or torpedo bombers.....no early war american dive bombers or torpedo bombers....no raf early and mid war carrier aircraft.....no early-mid war p-51..the p-51A....or the earliest p-47 combat aircraft.....the p-47 c-5.     so having alot..not all.....early and mid war axis.....and alot...not all...mid and late war allied,seem to be disproportionate.....but i guess not,if your american and it favors your side,lol

Huh?

[GScholz]

While any intel or propaganda on the B-29 would certainly have spurred the Germans on, it wasn't the genesis of the German Höhenjäger program. The Ta 152 was not the first German high altitude fighter design; it wasn't even Tank's first high altitude fighter design. The Fw 190B-1 with GM-1 (NO2) and pressurized cockpit was supposed to enter production in 1942, but production was cancelled. Pre-production models of the 190B served as chase planes during the Ta 152 development.

[bozon]

While any intel or propaganda on the B-29 would certainly have spurred the Germans on, it wasn't the genesis of the German Höhenjäger program. The Ta 152 was not the first German high altitude fighter design; it wasn't even Tank's first high altitude fighter design. The Fw 190B-1 with GM-1 (NO2) and pressurized cockpit was supposed to enter production in 1942, but production was cancelled. Pre-production models of the 190B served as chase planes during the Ta 152 development.

(Image removed from quote.)

Thanks for the info. I did not know that. Any clear reason why was this program canceled? I know that high alt performance was one of the problems with the 190A's and 109s were considered better up high.