Author Topic: Ethics of HO Shooting.....  (Read 14129 times)

Offline Zimme83

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Re: Ethics of HO Shooting.....
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2014, 08:20:22 PM »
A HO should not be the first option when enter a dog fight but when you are out of energy and an enemy is turning for the kill its preferable to Ho him, at least taking him with u in the death. But as previously stated, you need two to HO. A HO can be avoided at any time and if you are a decent pilot you can probably get the upper hand by start maneuvering instead of HO:ing.

Buffs on the other hand. HO was a preferred and recommended tactic, The front of the bomber is more vulnerable than the tail and a HO give the bomber guy very little time to shoot back and the fire power of the fighter should win the fight most of the times. (B-17 got their chin turret just because of this)
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Ethics of HO Shooting.....
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2014, 08:40:52 PM »
As to the HO. FIRING on a Head On merge is what I consider skillless and lame. I'm in it for the fight and as someone above said, challenge myself to maneuver for a good shot where the enemy doesn't have a shot. It takes more skill to get to that shot with out getting shot in the process, but its how I like to play the game.

If on the other hand you couldn't care less about how you fight or win then do what you will and ignore what others says.


Agreed.

The OP wanted to know why he was being criticized.  This is why.  That doesn't make the criticism valid; it's more like a comment that some people consider the HO shots to be unsportsmanlike.  If you view this game as a sport, you might take that into consideration.  If you view it as a simulation, or as some sort of I-got-more-kills-than-you-got contest, then by all means take the HO shot.

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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Ethics of HO Shooting.....
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2014, 09:03:52 PM »

Agreed.

The OP wanted to know why he was being criticized.  This is why.  That doesn't make the criticism valid; it's more like a comment that some people consider the HO shots to be unsportsmanlike.  If you view this game as a sport, you might take that into consideration.  If you view it as a simulation, or as some sort of I-got-more-kills-than-you-got contest, then by all means take the HO shot.

- oldman

If it is a 1-vs-1 it definitely not recommended to HO, just because its more fun if u donut. In a furball however, its different rules, if u can take down an enemy u do it. If it is a base take attempt everything is allowed to stop the opponent.
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Offline lunatic1

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Re: Ethics of HO Shooting.....
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2014, 09:06:23 PM »
Im confused by the whole ho shooting topic. It seems to be a big ethical no no. I am a newbi so forgive me. Iv received a couple of messages from other players claiming I hoed them. What qualifies as ho shooting except a direct head on assault?  I dove down on one player and shot him from behind and he accused me of hoing him. Also, if you're in a slower plane like a zero or nik2-j, how can you defend against high speed bnz,ers without facing them head on?

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Offline Gman

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Re: Ethics of HO Shooting.....
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2014, 09:08:32 PM »
They way I look at it a true "HO" is when both planes have little to no G on them, and flying right at one another, guns blazing.  Or, if one plane is doing that, while the other declines to shoot, maneuvers a little instead to create a miss, and initiates and early vert turn (usually what I try to do, I can't remember the last time I chose to go head to head shooting, I don't fly planes with guns that are made to win those).

However, I will say that when planes are in a fight, be it horizontal turns, vertical maneuvers/looping/turns/whatever, and somebody happens to flip a shot in my face as we pass nose to nose while pulling gee's, I don't get very wrapped up in the whole "oh em gee, he just tried to HO me" thing.  That type of face shot is a lot different than a merging HO, at least in my mind.  My little Joe A Cheem hit me with one of those last time I flew, and it's no big deal, a completely non HO type of shot IMO (I ended up doing the same to him with a tater the next sortie, well not as close, but close enough).  At least the opponent is fighting you and not running, so what if he takes a face shot after turn number 4 or 5 then, that's how I look at it, even though most of the really good sticks will still wait to unravel you, and shoot you up the behind, which is a good way to go IMO in terms of learning how to fly and fight better.

Offline SysError

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Re: Ethics of HO Shooting.....
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2014, 09:39:35 PM »
History:

"The first known instance of ramming in air warfare was made over Zhovkva by the Russian pilot, Pyotr Nesterov on 8 September 1914, against an Austrian plane. That incident was fatal to both parties. The second ramming—and the first successful ramming that was not fatal to the attacker—was performed in 1915 by Alexander Kazakov, a flying ace and the most successful Russian fighter pilot of World War I.[4]"   :old:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_ramming



(To think that I almost got a minor in History in college for what?  :headscratch: A cut and paste from wiki and, well, you have a conversation. :frown:)



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Offline glzsqd

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Re: Ethics of HO Shooting.....
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2014, 10:49:03 PM »
HO shots sometimes make for the coolest looking kills. Even though I whine about them sometimes there's really nothing wrong with it.
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Offline xPoisonx

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Re: Ethics of HO Shooting.....
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2014, 11:53:13 PM »
I just outfly them and kill them when they don't have a shot on me. Most of the time if you HO someone you will take damage, having to fly back to base. Also, they are easy to avoid but you are bound to get unlucky some times (usually happens to me in a 262  :bhead)
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: Ethics of HO Shooting.....
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2014, 01:39:49 AM »
I just outfly them and kill them when they don't have a shot on me. Most of the time if you HO someone you will take damage, having to fly back to base. Also, they are easy to avoid but you are bound to get unlucky some times (usually happens to me in a 262  :bhead)
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Offline Aspen

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Re: Ethics of HO Shooting.....
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2014, 03:11:42 AM »
For me, less face shooting = more fun.  Tens of thousands of fun fights never happened because they ended on the merge.  If I merge with a player that could have went for the shot but didn't, I smile.  If they are guns blazing, I sigh.

HO all you want, everyone does in some situation.  Losing a good fight with no HOs is more fun for me than winning one where I face shot the guy.
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: Ethics of HO Shooting.....
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2014, 04:10:57 AM »
it's only a ho if you get killed, otherwise it's a front 1/4 shot.



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you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline save

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Re: Ethics of HO Shooting.....
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2014, 05:24:16 AM »
One German pilot, Rösner (Elbe), rammed a buff with his 109g, the rammed a B24 flew right into another B24 in its formation, effectively killing 2 buffs.
The German pilot managed to bail out  and survived, got 3 medals  and got promoted from Gefreiter to Unteroffizier.
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Offline swareiam

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Re: Ethics of HO Shooting.....
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2014, 05:35:51 AM »
I have read many historical accounts of HOing in WWII. In fact, it was a USAAF fighter tactic to keep German interceptors from HOing USAAF bombers. That is how Chuck Yeager got shot down over southern France. In a HO fight...

From the man's mouth to ink...
http://victoriayeager.com/from-chuck-yeager-1944-shot-down-france/
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 05:40:43 AM by swareiam »
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Offline tunnelrat

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Re: Ethics of HO Shooting.....
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2014, 07:50:35 AM »
The whole "HOing" phenomena is almost exclusively an Aces High thing.  Not only are head-ons in other contemporary on-line sims extremely rare (might have something to do with the continuously computer range indication, I dunno... that's the best theory I have heard) but when they happen in other sims I have never heard whining about it.  Rare head-ons, even rarer whining.

Coming back here, there is something oddly comforting about it... looking at the red icon coming in... using your jedi-senses to determine the level of your opponent... It's unlikely that P-51 has his convergence set to 1500, but he sure is already on them guns... gonna be a quick fight hahahaha
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Offline Zerstorer

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Re: Ethics of HO Shooting.....
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2014, 08:21:13 AM »
The whole "HOing" phenomena is almost exclusively an Aces High thing.  Not only are head-ons in other contemporary on-line sims extremely rare (might have something to do with the continuously computer range indication, I dunno... that's the best theory I have heard) but when they happen in other sims I have never heard whining about it.  Rare head-ons, even rarer whining.

Coming back here, there is something oddly comforting about it... looking at the red icon coming in... using your jedi-senses to determine the level of your opponent... It's unlikely that P-51 has his convergence set to 1500, but he sure is already on them guns... gonna be a quick fight hahahaha


A good point. 

Of all the online "combat flight simulations" I've flown, AH is the only one where a sizable percentage of the player population attempt to dissuade and/or demean those who attempt to use actual combat tactics:  Front quarter shots, acquiring altitude before engaging, extending or disengaging from a fight when the situation calls for it, etc.

This was touched on earlier, but I think this attitude is because some see AH as a sport / game, while others are more into the simulation aspects of AH.  Both player types are competitive, but the approach they take reflects these philosophical differences.

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