Author Topic: A-320 crash  (Read 3440 times)

Offline SysError

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Re: A-320 crash
« Reply #60 on: March 26, 2015, 02:19:34 PM »
If thats true then unfortunately, the door safety system failed here. Something will change in the future for sure.
Its beyound me that nobody from the engineering team imagined/trained for such an extreme case.
The captains leave the cockpit and have absolutely no chance to enter it again? (not in 8min.)

As I understand it, some airlines require a member of the cabin crew to go into the cockpit if a pilot needs to go to the head.

Do not know which airlines or if it is enforced.

« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 02:21:12 PM by SysError »
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Offline Wolfala

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Re: A-320 crash
« Reply #61 on: March 26, 2015, 02:24:38 PM »
I'm going to say this because it's an industrywide problem: As pilots were really encouraged to compartmentalize stuff and not get treatment for anything we have going on emotionally or mentally because of our friends, the FAA. Now if the consequences of getting treatment for whatever was going on inside our heads was not so punitive may be there would not be so many crazy pilots floating around.

My 2 cents


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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: A-320 crash
« Reply #62 on: March 26, 2015, 03:42:51 PM »
"A Spiegel reporter, Matthias Gebauer, is tweeting that friends of Lubitz said he had burnout or depression in 2009 and had to take time out from his pilot training. During the Lufthansa press conference there were questions as to why Lubitz interrupted his training, but there were no definitive answers.
— Matthias Gebauer (@gebauerspon) March 26, 2015
freunde von #4U9525 co-pilot berichten, andreas lubitz habe 2009 auszeit von flugausbildung wg burnout-syndrom oder depression genommen"
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: A-320 crash
« Reply #63 on: March 26, 2015, 03:54:20 PM »
I'm going to say this because it's an industrywide problem: As pilots were really encouraged to compartmentalize stuff and not get treatment for anything we have going on emotionally or mentally because of our friends, the FAA. Now if the consequences of getting treatment for whatever was going on inside our heads was not so punitive may be there would not be so many crazy pilots floating around.

My 2 cents

going back on what Wolfala Said. Here is another description regarding mental health by the FAA.


If you really want to lay blame on someone and something for letting this happen lets go after the regulatory agencies specifically the FAA. Why? Because they create a culture where anyone with any mental health problem WILL not be allowed to fly. You may ask whats the big deal about that? The thing is when you're a professional pilot you train for years and spend tons of money. You basically dedicate your life to the profession. Some people live with mental health problems for the early part of their lives only to have them really surface as they get older. The problem is that when it's discovered in this profession you may be heavily committed in it and unable to just stop.
For example if pete age 40 is a 737 captain at major airline X he's probably making 200k a year. He has a house 2 cars a nice family. But Pete is sad, what can pete do? Well if you were in non-aviation you would go to the doctor and get checked out and get the help you need. Not in aviation... If pete went to the doctor and was diagnosed with depression he wouldn't be allowed to fly anymore. Now his 200k a year income is gone. The faa would deny his medical for years. So now what? Well Pete would have to get a job in something else while also fighting the faa to get his medical back. At age 40 with only aviation it would be near impossible to get a job making 200k again. So he would at best get a 50k entry level position since other than aviation he has no other marketable skills. It would most likely end up causing much more stress since now his house, cars, and marriage would all be in danger. I've been told those anti-depressants don't really cure you and in most cases make things worse. So now pete is on those making pills, making 75% less money, worried about his carreer, family life, professional life and mental health. If anything Pete is probably worse off now than he was before because the depression is probably still there but now he has the weight of the world on him with all those other factors lingering in his mind.
So with all that said what do you think pete would end up doing? Getting "help" or just "dealing with it" and maybe having a few drinks at the hotel bar to help him sleep better at night? I'm sure pete would love to see a professional to help him cope with his depression or whatever but the FAA creates an environment where that is not possible. This also explains the rampant alcoholism that pilots face.
Want to do something about it, pressure the government to actually care about someones mental health.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: A-320 crash
« Reply #64 on: March 26, 2015, 03:55:49 PM »
What does the FAA have to do with a pilot who operates in Europe? 
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Offline Traveler

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Re: A-320 crash
« Reply #65 on: March 26, 2015, 03:56:21 PM »
I honestly believe that individual would have been successful in crashing the airplane if they really wanted to even with a third individual on that flight deck.  It would've been in the ground or in water eventually regardless of jumpseat occupation.

Airlines can't fully staff their schedules now with 2 pilot crews. Where are they going to find a third?

Bunch of old guys with guns on jump seats isn't the answer to any problem I can think of.

Even this nut knew he couldn't crash the plane with the captain in the cockpit.  He had to wait for the captain to leave the deck. It doesn't matter if it was a terror attack or murder the result is the same, flying public will demand a third party be present at all time.
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Offline Gh0stFT

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Re: A-320 crash
« Reply #66 on: March 26, 2015, 03:59:02 PM »
Just in:

Consequence of the Germanwings tragedy,
More safety on board Lufthansa (Lufthansa, Air Berlin, Condor und TuiFly) introduces new two-person rule.


that was quick.
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: A-320 crash
« Reply #67 on: March 26, 2015, 04:04:37 PM »
But not unexpected, this will lead to rules to prevent similar acts by a single crew member.
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Offline SysError

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Re: A-320 crash
« Reply #68 on: March 26, 2015, 04:30:24 PM »
Just in:

Consequence of the Germanwings tragedy,
More safety on board Lufthansa (Lufthansa, Air Berlin, Condor und TuiFly) introduces new two-person rule.


that was quick.

When I was a kid planes had 3 crew members.  Dropped for cost reasons.

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Offline jollyFE

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Re: A-320 crash
« Reply #69 on: March 26, 2015, 04:31:22 PM »
What does the FAA have to do with a pilot who operates in Europe?

All it will take is either the FAA or their European counterparts to change their stance on mental health and treatment.  It's taken the military forever to start to change their attitude towards it.
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Offline Gh0stFT

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Re: A-320 crash
« Reply #70 on: March 26, 2015, 04:41:35 PM »
more news:

"Now Norwegian Air Shuttle, EasyJet and Air Canada introduces new two-person rule."
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Offline SysError

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Re: A-320 crash
« Reply #71 on: March 26, 2015, 04:49:33 PM »
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Offline Joker312

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Re: A-320 crash
« Reply #72 on: March 26, 2015, 05:45:46 PM »
Do I understand this correctly? The FAA should relax their policy regarding mental heath issues to allow pilots experiencing such issues to continue to fly while seeking the help of a mental health professional and maybe taking prescription drugs to treat said issues because the person in crisis can continue in his chosen career?

I cant believe someone would even type that.

Believe me the FAA does all it can to help people with problems but they cannot allow persons with signs of mental health issues or any type of substance abuse continue in any safety related position. Is it wrong of the FAA to pull a persons ticket just because he received a DUI/DWI or public intoxication summons? I don't think it is.

As far as stopping people from doing things like this..... you cant. You can only take steps to make it harder for them to accomplish such deeds. It is a well know fact that for every safeguard put in place it is only a matter of time before someone finds a solution or workaround to it.
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Offline SysError

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Re: A-320 crash
« Reply #73 on: March 26, 2015, 05:57:17 PM »
Do I understand this correctly? The FAA should relax their policy regarding mental heath issues to allow pilots experiencing such issues to continue to fly while seeking the help of a mental health professional and maybe taking prescription drugs to treat said issues because the person in crisis can continue in his chosen career?

I cant believe someone would even type that.

Believe me the FAA does all it can to help people with problems but they cannot allow persons with signs of mental health issues or any type of substance abuse continue in any safety related position. Is it wrong of the FAA to pull a persons ticket just because he received a DUI/DWI or public intoxication summons? I don't think it is.

As far as stopping people from doing things like this..... you cant. You can only take steps to make it harder for them to accomplish such deeds. It is a well know fact that for every safeguard put in place it is only a matter of time before someone finds a solution or workaround to it.

You could establish an insurance fund to pay the salary (some portion of) of pilots judged to have mental health problems.  It could be very similar to long term disability coverage that some companies provide their employees today.  Current plans are not too expensive, but here in the US most do not cover mental health and have a pre-existing clause. 


 


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Offline Joker312

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Re: A-320 crash
« Reply #74 on: March 26, 2015, 06:26:03 PM »
You could establish an insurance fund to pay the salary (some portion of) of pilots judged to have mental health problems.  It could be very similar to long term disability coverage that some companies provide their employees today.  Current plans are not too expensive, but here in the US most do not cover mental health and have a pre-existing clause.

That's a great idea Sys. I know that the Air Traffic Controllers union, NATCA, offers insurance to its members that covers a portion or your salary (75% tax free I believe as the Federal tax laws exempt disability payments) if the controller loses his medical for any reason other than self induced. I don't know all the details, I retired a few years back and tossed all that stuff, but if the airlines had something like that available it would surely help.

On the other hand it wouldn't help the person who's mind was made up to do something like this without seeking the help that was available to him/her.

Unfortunately we live in a world where you just cant legislate all tragedy away.
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