Author Topic: Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?  (Read 13758 times)

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?
« Reply #60 on: May 18, 2015, 11:49:49 AM »
No wait, it was 2002... Jeez, time flies... I'm old.  :old:
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?
« Reply #61 on: May 18, 2015, 12:31:32 PM »
Found this old vid I made back almost a decade ago showcasing the 109F. I'm sorry to say I couldn't shoot worth a damn back then... Still cant.  :cheers:



The jerkiness is just the old film viewer being a bit dodgy.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 12:34:53 PM by PR3D4TOR »
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?
« Reply #62 on: May 18, 2015, 02:39:25 PM »
The 109f is a great plane and very fun to fly, however if you are in the late war MA, you better learn some defense ACM because 90% of the time you will be fighting against planes that are higher and/or faster than you.
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?
« Reply #63 on: May 18, 2015, 03:23:42 PM »
I don't know if the MA has changed a lot this past year, but it wasn't much of a problem before. You'd normally find me at 23-25k at 385 mph cruising around looking for prey. In a very shallow dive it would easily do 450+ mph for intercepts. With a little throttle management you can get an hour or more endurance out of the 109F with no droptank (clean is faster) just cruising around covering a lot of ground. It's a very nice little plane.
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Offline ink

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Re: Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?
« Reply #64 on: May 18, 2015, 03:32:53 PM »
I don't know if the MA has changed a lot this past year, but it wasn't much of a problem before. You'd normally find me at 23-25k at 385 mph cruising around looking for prey. In a very shallow dive it would easily do 450+ mph for intercepts. With a little throttle management you can get an hour or more endurance out of the 109F with no droptank (clean is faster) just cruising around covering a lot of ground. It's a very nice little plane.

 :O

I come in at 15 and people call me an ALT monkey  :rofl :rofl

I cant see how you would ever get many fights up there...I bet 90% of the MA is fighting under 10K and have been for as long as I have been here.

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?
« Reply #65 on: May 18, 2015, 03:51:26 PM »
A bird of prey looks down at its intended victim, not up. I'm an altmonkey and proud of it!  :P

Anyways, 23k is the 109F's sweet spot for cruising speed and range. And in a 109 it's just a 5 minute climb.
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Offline ink

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Re: Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?
« Reply #66 on: May 18, 2015, 03:56:33 PM »
A bird of prey looks down at its intended victim, not up. I'm an altmonkey and proud of it!  :P

Anyways, 23k is the 109F's sweet spot for cruising speed and range. And in a 109 it's just a 5 minute climb.

 :rofl


a true fighter can fight from a disadvantage...and will even give ya his hi 6 to fill you full of confidence...before he sends ya to the tower :cheers:

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?
« Reply #67 on: May 18, 2015, 04:06:41 PM »
 :D Sure, but only an idiot would do so on purpose! Would it surprise you that I mostly flew for the Rooks?  :P
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?
« Reply #68 on: May 18, 2015, 04:30:12 PM »
Its one thing to begin the fight that high and dive on lower players. It is another thing to quickly get the kill and regain back to hat alt without getting jumped by the faster P51D and 190Ds that are trying to pick you after you dive. Even when the plane dives, a lot of the MA rides will still catch the 109f. You can't really BnZ in a 109F bexuase it isnt fast enough. This plus the fact that it has terrible guns (makes you take a lot longer to get the kill) leaves you a lot lower than before and slower than before. So if any plane ends up higher than you, you will get jumped. That is why I said you better know some good defense maneuvers because most of the time you will be flying defensively in the 109F even though you started out with high alt. It is mostly the motion of the furball that takes the fights lower and lower, and if you are bad at aiming you run a huge risk of getting ganged in slow planes in the MA.
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?
« Reply #69 on: May 18, 2015, 04:46:30 PM »
Sure, that's where SA comes in handy. To successfully survive in a multi-con environment you need to know where everyone is, where they're going, and their relative E-states. It was much easier back in the day when we had accurate range icons. Knew a few guys who quit over that game change.
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Offline ISux

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Re: Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?
« Reply #70 on: May 19, 2015, 09:54:20 AM »
Its one thing to begin the fight that high and dive on lower players. It is another thing to quickly get the kill and regain back to hat alt without getting jumped by the faster P51D and 190Ds that are trying to pick you after you dive. Even when the plane dives, a lot of the MA rides will still catch the 109f. You can't really BnZ in a 109F bexuase it isnt fast enough. This plus the fact that it has terrible guns (makes you take a lot longer to get the kill) leaves you a lot lower than before and slower than before. So if any plane ends up higher than you, you will get jumped. That is why I said you better know some good defense maneuvers because most of the time you will be flying defensively in the 109F even though you started out with high alt. It is mostly the motion of the furball that takes the fights lower and lower, and if you are bad at aiming you run a huge risk of getting ganged in slow planes in the MA.20

my typical play style, i fly the 190D a lot and sometimes the k4.
typically with the d9 I take full fuel and a drop every sortie. I like to set myself to climb in a direction that will take me just out of the sector i'm going to.  Then ill go afk and smoke a cigarette. when i come back I'm usually between 15 and 22k.
if i think the fight is low ill drop to about 15k and pick up speed before i enter the fight.
if i think there might be bombers around i'll head for the fight at 20k or so.   I like to kill bombers so its nice to get to a fight at a good alt.

usually ill drop into the fight and slash attack until i get lower e.  typically if i'm below 5k and slower than 400 it's time to extend and climb a bit.
i've been pretty successful in the Dora not so much in the k4  :D

i really like the 190, because the cannons are great, lots of ammo and it takes just a few hits to get a kill. plus with the dora i can usually escape a bad situation, and it has enough fuel that i can leave climb and come back a couple of times.

I''ve just found that i can't get kills as easily in the planes with 6 .50 cals.

not really talking about the k4 that much i cant hit anything except bombers consistently with it yet.  but that's my play style.
i also like to use the TA-152 its a fun plane to fly. and 90 30mm is just great.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 09:58:06 AM by ISux »
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Offline Triton28

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Re: Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?
« Reply #71 on: May 19, 2015, 11:25:08 AM »
Both.

Love the K4 when I'm in the mood for overshoots, snapshots, and tourquey power moves.  It has the potential to get you in and out of situations almost no other plane can. 

Hate the K4 when my tater aim goes to hell and I can't hit the broadside of a barn.  Some of my most frustrated times in AH have been in the toon cockpit of a Kurfurst clicking the trigger in desperation. 
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?
« Reply #72 on: May 19, 2015, 12:45:42 PM »
My favorite med-high alt maneuver against more agile opponents. Wrong game and wrong plane set, but a very good demonstration:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahecxkZX7DE

Wish we had contrails like that. Would make SA and determining E-state easier.
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?
« Reply #73 on: May 19, 2015, 03:09:33 PM »
my typical play style, i fly the 190D a lot and sometimes the k4.
typically with the d9 I take full fuel and a drop every sortie. I like to set myself to climb in a direction that will take me just out of the sector i'm going to.  Then ill go afk and smoke a cigarette. when i come back I'm usually between 15 and 22k.
if i think the fight is low ill drop to about 15k and pick up speed before i enter the fight.
if i think there might be bombers around i'll head for the fight at 20k or so.   I like to kill bombers so its nice to get to a fight at a good alt.

usually ill drop into the fight and slash attack until i get lower e.  typically if i'm below 5k and slower than 400 it's time to extend and climb a bit.
i've been pretty successful in the Dora not so much in the k4  :D

i really like the 190, because the cannons are great, lots of ammo and it takes just a few hits to get a kill. plus with the dora i can usually escape a bad situation, and it has enough fuel that i can leave climb and come back a couple of times.

I''ve just found that i can't get kills as easily in the planes with 6 .50 cals.

not really talking about the k4 that much i cant hit anything except bombers consistently with it yet.  but that's my play style.
i also like to use the TA-152 its a fun plane to fly. and 90 30mm is just great.

Maybe next time I see you on you can join my plane and I'll show you how to aim or at least set up the shots to aim the thing. It is very hard to be precise when aiming the K4 because no one really knows how exactly to aim it every time they set up for a shot. I use a 2 second burst on my shots.

What makes the K4 difficult is setting up for the correct shot without blowing all your E or losing all your alt. In a K4 you have to spiral dive on lower opponents to set up a nice deflection shot. In the 190D you can easily dive going 560 and still make a simple lead shot. If you miss, the 190D you can fly away and regain your alt without too much catching you. If you miss in the K4 you have to watch your 6 becuase planes who dive on you might catch you considering you have to cut throttle to dive and may have lossed a lot of speed going for a shot which you missed, and now roll over again and again to kill him, there by losing speed and alt which makes for an easy pick. As triton said, missing your shots suck in the K4 is frustrating as hell and becoming impatient to get a shot will cause you to lose a lot of speed and a lot of alt.

The way to fly the K4 is to beefin up your defensive techniques, again watch my film to see how I fight defensively and turn the defensive to offense without losing too much speed. I use a lot of flaps to get a slight extra lift and to work the vert, potentially rolling around my opponent to gain their 6. As you can see, I couldnt out roll the first spit soo I had to dive, as he was chasing me I used aileron to roll in the direction I wanted to pull up and then when the time was right and I knew the spit couldnt follow (black out), I right snap rolled In to get the shot on the scissors.


Watch my film Jumbo that was posted a page back. I missed quite a few "easy shots" but it is just hard to measure when exactly to shoot.

To be effective in the K4, or any 109. You have to fly about 12-15k max, fly it fast like you are zooming around in the air, and be very aware of SA, set up your shots using spiral dives, overshoots, or ropes (have to get close) (not like how you set up a shot with a 190, unless you rope), become very knowledgeable about defensive maneuvers, timing, ACM, and understanding what your enemy plane is capable of. All of this goes into flying the K4 because it is not suppose to be flown like a 190D or a Brewster.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 03:12:50 PM by DmonSlyr »
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Offline Someguy63

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Re: Bf-109K4, love it or hate it?
« Reply #74 on: May 19, 2015, 03:14:47 PM »
Nice write up violator.

And the fact that you must learn to be effective with the tater can only be stressed so much in order to be successful in this plane in addition to everything V listed.
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