Author Topic: Report of F35A vs F16Cblk40 goes public  (Read 13706 times)

Offline Zimme83

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Re: Report of F35A vs F16Cblk40 goes public
« Reply #75 on: July 05, 2015, 05:33:49 PM »
I dont have to, we both know that anything can happen in a war. It can be a Chinese fighter slipping trough and shooting the tanker down, leaving an entire F-22 squad to ditch in the pacific when they are out of fuel. Its more than just having the best planes.
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Offline eagl

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Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline JVboob

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Re: Report of F35A vs F16Cblk40 goes public
« Reply #77 on: July 06, 2015, 12:56:52 AM »
he said have a few drinks before reading it and zimmie  didnt
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Offline artik

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Re: Report of F35A vs F16Cblk40 goes public
« Reply #78 on: July 06, 2015, 05:42:55 AM »
You know PR3D4TOR

I don't know even where to start. Your logic contradicts even basic physics.

Quote
The F-35 can visually identify targets at BVR ranges using the DAS optical system. Back in the day the F-14 could also visually identify targets at up to 60 miles using its AAX-1 TV camera slaved to the radar.

Do you know what weather is? Have you even noticed what weather is in Europe for example most of the time?
Even at clear skys of summer Middle East visibility of 60 miles virtually never exist.

Or maybe you think F-35's enemies will always fly at 30,000 feet?

Quote
The current production model the AIM-120D has a range of 180+ kilometers (presumably against large non-maneuvering targets)

Do you even know how missile range is calculate for publicity? At high altitude against head on target that comes close whe you fly at high speed towards the target. i.e. most favorable conditions. In reality it does not even comes close to that:

http://www.x-plane.org/home/urf/aviation/text/missiles/aam.html

You write that story...
You inspired me

Quote
ICEMAN'S WAR
by PR3D4TOR...
Edited down to reality by Artik

Now I'll add several fixes to your story. I'll do a small correction:

Eight dual seat Super Vipers each carrying a maximum load of fuel, ex-Indian LITENING G4 pod, two anti-ship missiles, two AMRAAMs and two MICA IR (at least call them properly - French missiles %#^$^%).
...

The range is dropping fast on the target brackets. 42 miles. The Colonel's WSO directs his LITENING pod to the a single airborne target while the colonel concentrates on flying and penetration. The sky is crystal clear above the low clouds the pod easily detects the huge IR signature of 28,000lbf turbofan F-135. WSO zooms in and visually identifies the lonely F-35... easy meat.
...

A fraction of a second after the last AMRAAM left the rails "Betty" jettisons the spent wing pylon launchers along with the two remaining Sidewinders. "Iceman" is willing to forgo their future use in return for making his F-35 stealthy. A sudden jolt shoots through the F-35's airframe as explosive bolts blow the pylons away. A startled "Iceman" pulls his F-35 into a sharp climbing left-hand turn and punches out a couple of chaff canisters. Unfortunately for "Iceman" The Colone's WSO watches the fat lightening II using his IR pod. He detects the lunch of 8 AMRAAMs and the inconsistency between the radar and the FLIR - for an experienced WSO it is clear what Iceman tries to do. He warn the formation the F-35 got stealthy and that enemy AMRAAMs in the air

At this point the story radically changes the direction.

Now when Lightning is stealthy and not operates his radar, Colonel sends 4 of his vipers to the cloud cover - without radar IR information F-35 can't send updates to AMRAAMs - so these birds are safe and pushing towards the fleet. All the pilots and WSO are warned of incoming missiles that should be in in about of 30 seconds are getting ready - ECM turned on, chaff being released. The tiny radars of AMRAAMs stand no chance to the latest Indian ECM (that was actually developed by ELTA).

Iceman turns back. He has no radar lock warning being sure that his stealth protects him. He does not realize that he was watched by IR Pod all the time. The Colone's WSO watches the target providing vital information and helps the Vipers above the cloud to perform classic bracket maneuver splitting the flight into two sections. Distance get closer and now 4 pilots above the clouds and WSOs watch the sky for the dark image of F-35 from 15 miles in classic VVR combat.

While performing evasive maneuvers Iceman has lost some of the SA. Now he back to the sensors and realizes that the track of 4 vipers was lost of 4 are still in the air now he is overloaded with information trying to gain back his SA. He misses 4 vipers performing a classic bracket, being overloaded he plays to the Vipers hands. Now he is in VVR with 4 Vipers, one pair on his 6 and  another on his 12.



Unfortunately we don't know what happened next. Iceman never come back and all 16 anti-ship missiles were eventually lunched.

Later the FLIR image of last moment of lonely F-35 attempting to save the fleet was published:



As an aftermath of the attack:

- USS George H.W. Bush was damaged by an attack of 8 Vipers and had to withdraw from the operation.
- New 6th generation concept of an aircraft was designed that would become true BVR plane instead of legacy 5th generation that still kept some of the VVR capabilities for ID.
- Boeing promises that 6th generation  F-66 would do true BVR right unlike legacy 5th generation. It would cost only twice as 5th generation but would be 10 times more efficient.
- Navy plans to replace a fleet of 200 5th generation F-35C panes by 20 extremely efficient F-66C planes to allow cost savings.
- Space agency now requested that F-66S variant would be able to operate in space in addition to F-66B VTOL operations. Army requested it to be able to replace all aging Abrams tanks as well by F-66AT. Marines decided to drop their V-22 in favor of AVF-66 as troop transport and fighter in one. C-17 would be dropped in favor of F-66AC as transport aircraft.
- Boeing still have some minor problem that should be resolved soon in next two decades
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline bozon

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Re: Report of F35A vs F16Cblk40 goes public
« Reply #79 on: July 06, 2015, 08:34:19 AM »
F66...
That was a good one  :rofl
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Report of F35A vs F16Cblk40 goes public
« Reply #80 on: July 06, 2015, 11:01:16 AM »
According to the USAF the F-35 stealthiness is slightly better than the B-2 bomber, which is twice as good as the F-117. It has the radar cross section half that of a small bird. Not as good as the F-22 though which has an RCS the size of a marble.

Stealthy... Right up until you mount the weapons ejector racks under the wings. Then, its stealth is significantly degraded from all aspects except from above.

The racks are built by Exelis (formally EDO), and we (Circor Aerospace & Defense) designed and manufacture the pneumatic ejector system installed in each rack. We provide the pneumatic modules for the BRU-67 and BRU-68 (F-35) as well as those for Predator and Reaper.

The under-wing racks can be pitched off if need be, but the expense of tossing them is considerable, and there will be finite number in the inventory.
My regards,

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Offline Widewing

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My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Report of F35A vs F16Cblk40 goes public
« Reply #82 on: July 07, 2015, 06:06:09 AM »
Artik you spoilsport! You're like the soviets who killed Rambo in their version of the movie!  :(
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Report of F35A vs F16Cblk40 goes public
« Reply #83 on: July 07, 2015, 10:52:33 PM »
Why can't you militant nerds leave your airplane and car toejam in the aircraft and vehicles forum. It's called the O' Club not the square club.
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Offline Meatwad

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Re: Report of F35A vs F16Cblk40 goes public
« Reply #84 on: July 07, 2015, 11:00:56 PM »
See Rule 19- Do not place sausage on pizza.
I am No-Sausage-On-Pizza-Wad.
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Report of F35A vs F16Cblk40 goes public
« Reply #85 on: July 08, 2015, 12:44:50 AM »
You know PR3D4TOR

I don't know even where to start. Your logic contradicts even basic physics.

Do you know what weather is? Have you even noticed what weather is in Europe for example most of the time?
Even at clear skys of summer Middle East visibility of 60 miles virtually never exist.

Or maybe you think F-35's enemies will always fly at 30,000 feet?

F-14s regularly ID'ed Russian planes at these ranges using a rather primitive TV camera system. In my story they were flying over the Red Sea or Gulf of Aden with typical late night cloud cover. I did not specify the altitude of the clouds, but they are typically not above five thousand feet. Over water visibility above the clouds is usually unlimited, i.e. limited only by the horizon and zoom/resolution capability of the optical sensors. With the right optics you can track satellites in these conditions. In my story the attackers' altitude varied from the initial NOE to their pop-up attack altitude of fifteen thousand feet. At fifteen thousand feet the horizon is approximately at 150 miles, which makes the F-16s detecting the carrier group on radar the only stretch of what's possible in this regard.


Do you even know how missile range is calculate for publicity? At high altitude against head on target that comes close whe you fly at high speed towards the target. i.e. most favorable conditions. In reality it does not even comes close to that:

http://www.x-plane.org/home/urf/aviation/text/missiles/aam.html
 

Yes I do. You should have noticed "Iceman" held his fire for that exact reason.

Btw. that link is fifteen years old and needs to be updated to reflect the reality of current generation missiles.



... and two MICA IR (at least call them properly - French missiles %#^$^%).
 

 :D

« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 12:53:15 AM by PR3D4TOR »
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Report of F35A vs F16Cblk40 goes public
« Reply #86 on: July 08, 2015, 12:47:55 AM »
Stealthy... Right up until you mount the weapons ejector racks under the wings. Then, its stealth is significantly degraded from all aspects except from above.

The racks are built by Exelis (formally EDO), and we (Circor Aerospace & Defense) designed and manufacture the pneumatic ejector system installed in each rack. We provide the pneumatic modules for the BRU-67 and BRU-68 (F-35) as well as those for Predator and Reaper.

The under-wing racks can be pitched off if need be, but the expense of tossing them is considerable, and there will be finite number in the inventory.

Cool. In this case I think "Iceman" would have been forgiven by his superiors for losing the expensive racks.
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Offline artik

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Re: Report of F35A vs F16Cblk40 goes public
« Reply #87 on: July 08, 2015, 01:31:51 AM »
Artik you spoilsport! You're like the soviets who killed Rambo in their version of the movie!  :(

Never liked Top Gun  :devil  :devil :devil :devil :devil

To be honest. You killed Iceman. You send him in a single F-35 armed with AMRAAMs against 8 Vipers updated with Israeli ECM? He must be suicidal  :neener:

Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Report of F35A vs F16Cblk40 goes public
« Reply #88 on: July 08, 2015, 01:40:08 AM »
I was drunk. ;)
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Offline bozon

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Re: Report of F35A vs F16Cblk40 goes public
« Reply #89 on: July 08, 2015, 05:35:18 AM »
Never liked Top Gun  :devil  :devil :devil :devil :devil
What? This is one of the best homo-erotic movies of the 80s.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs