60 Degree Limits for Bombers

[Interceptor]

+1 : fully loaded Bombers are allowed to do impossible and arcade moves atm...
And for G/angles, yes, some moves are impossible, for exemple, the bombs weight inertia alone would dismantle the plane during acrobatics some do...

[Randy1]

Another approch would be to have the drones breakaway much easier and have the drone fly on by itself until it was shot down or crashed.

Nothing worse than make a run on a drone and it snaps back to main group just as you pull the trigger.

Just another place where folks game the game pulling it further away from a simulation.

[bustr]

jee you don't like on demand collisions while getting in too close to a bomber box.....

[earl1937]

jee you don't like on demand collisions while getting in too close to a bomber box.....

As usual, I guess I did not make my self clear! I am saying put a 60 degree limit on banks and climbing or descending, just for the purpose of making people fly bombers more like bombers flew in real life. As Columbo pointed out, there have been times when real aircraft far exceeded their normal operating limits! I remember one time, when working on 2 engines out on one side in a real B-29, approach to landing stalls, and before I could stop it, we snap rolled into a 1 and 1/2 right hand spin, but with power off the other side and hard left rudder, it recovered very nicely and never exceeded, if I recall correctly, about 175IAS and we were at 15,000 feet, which is where we usually did our "airwork"!

[Oldman731]

As usual, I guess I did not make my self clear! I am saying put a 60 degree limit on banks and climbing or descending, just for the purpose of making people fly bombers more like bombers flew in real life. As Columbo pointed out, there have been times when real aircraft far exceeded their normal operating limits! I remember one time, when working on 2 engines out on one side in a real B-29, approach to landing stalls, and before I could stop it, we snap rolled into a 1 and 1/2 right hand spin, but with power off the other side and hard left rudder, it recovered very nicely and never exceeded, if I recall correctly, about 175IAS and we were at 15,000 feet, which is where we usually did our "airwork"!

Earl, did you have a crew onboard, and what happened to them during the plummet?

- oldman

[earl1937]

Earl, did you have a crew onboard, and what happened to them during the plummet?

- oldman

We had a full crew on board and it was standard policy to stay in your assigned take off and landing positions when doing "air work" for safety reasons. There were no "standing" positions for gunners like on the 17's and 24's. Every gun position had a "seat" by which the gunner sat in and he was strapped in because if during an air attack or ack attack, should we have a "rapid" decompression event, due to damage to the pressure vessel, the aircraft, you could stand a risk of being thrown about inside the air craft. It was standard procedure to de pressurize the aircraft during tactical combat situations, unless it was a surprise attack of some kind!

[caldera]

So perhaps the fix is to simply lose the defensive guns (and/or the bomb load) if the plane exceeds certain parameters.  Pilots who want to dogfight with their bombers could still do so, there would be no need to artificially limit the flight model, and the effects on the crew and payload would be replicated.

- oldman

That seems reasonable.

Now, if they would eliminate the drone warping as well... 

[bustr]

The manual for the A-20G with wing pylons had the following limitation so released bombs would not damage the plane. From what I've been able to find, a 15 degree bank is one limitation for 4 engine bombers.

Bombing Drop Angle Limitations
Diving limited to 30 degrees.
Banking limited to 10 degrees.
Climb limited to 15 degrees.

Even fighters are limited on banking angle against the real chance of damaging the prop by the up wing bomb.

You guys might want to brush up on the permissible glide angle for some of the bombers to release bombs.

B17G - http://aviationshoppe.com/boeing-b17-documents-manuals-a-23.html
B29 - http://aviationshoppe.com/boeing-b29-documents-manuals-a-55.html
B25 - http://aviationshoppe.com/b25-mitchell-documents-manuals-a-24.html
B-26 - http://aviationshoppe.com/martin-b26-documents-manuals-a-20.html
B-24 - http://aviationshoppe.com/consolidated-b24-pb4y-liberator-privateer-a-57.html

Oh! Waffle,

By 1944, B26 that were used for low level skip and glide bombing had an N6 optical gunsight mounted as standard equipment for the pilot. It had a similar gunsight dial head as in the B25-H. It's in the 1944 Training manual linked above.

[Bino]

In real life I've done wingovers in a B-17, bank angle around 100 degrees or so.  I don't like putting artificial limits on performance.  If the heavy airplanes flew more like heavy airplanes it would be a self solving problem.  Real life a B-17 would be very difficult to complete a roll in, the roll rate is horrible….good chance you'd run out of air before completing the roll.

Control forces are also very high, more so as speed builds.  While this is modeled to some extend in game I have found that they just don't feel quite like the real airplanes….I'll do things in game I wouldn't think about doing real life.

 

Emphasis added in bold red.

[Karnak]

What bank and pitch angles did Lancaster's achieve during a evasive corkscrew?

[bustr]

Lancaster bomb clearance angles.

Dive 30
Climb 20
Bank 10

[Karnak]

Lancaster bomb clearance angles.

Dive 30
Climb 20
Bank 10

Those are bomb clearance angles for dropping bombs, not aircraft limits for evasive maneuvers.

[Zimme83]

Until proven otherwise i will say that Buffs like B-17, lancs etc. was not certified for any fancy maneuvering like rolls, hammerheads etc.

[Karnak]

Until proven otherwise i will say that Buffs like B-17, lancs etc. was not certified for any fancy maneuvering like rolls, hammerheads etc.

You dispute the corkscrew evasive maneuver?  There is an awful lot of documentation and first person accounts supporting it.

[Zimme83]

As i said, until proven otherwise. I dont know excatly how these maneuvers looked so its hard to say anything about them. But on the other hand, ist a big step from a corkscrew to a hammerhead.

Edit: did some search and corkscrews in lancs dont seems to be very near the maneuvers we do in AH:


Prob effective against night fighters but not that violent.