Turn and Burners

[Zimme83]

Looking at the stats its obvious that the TnB have a hard time in MA, only the wildcats and Ki-43 have a k/d of >1. (thanks to a few good and dedicated players)  Most of the rest is among the worst planes in k/d ratio:
I -16: 0.52
A6M2: 0.51
A6M3 0.74
Brew: 0.75
Hurri IIc_ 0.87

And so on...

Based on this its a little wierd that dedicated TnB are concidered "über" when its obviously very hard to be succesful in them. Even The P-40 variants beat most TnB:ers in k/d ratio.
I think its time to kill the myth that slow turn fighters are easy to fight in, You can fight low and slow better than a pony yes, but most of the time you cannot dictate the terms of the fight.

opinions on that?

[JOACH1M]

The only burning those planes do is when they are shot.

Turn and burners would be something in a spitfire, 109f-g2, ki's, n1k, or a f4u/f6. The planes you listed are just to slow.

[ImADot]

Slow Early-Mid war planes, even if good turners, have a hard time competing with the faster more heavily armored Latewar planes. By the time you evade the attack and get into firing position, the enemy is already well out of guns range.

[Kazaa]

Brew is pretty dope little machine.

[DmonSlyr]

It's not that they are easy/hard to fly, it is that these types of planes are super slow to be successful in outside of their range. Fighting late war planes, which were designed to go fast and carry a punch, can out run all the midwar TnBers. It was found that the faster the plane, the better survival rate of the crews. TnBs are good in fast action furballs low on the deck. They can only utilize that specific function in the fight. The other extreme is a typhoon, its a plane that can only really utilize the BnZ function. TnB planes typically lose in higher furballs because they cannot dive well and cannot escape or evade a bunch of cons who are faster than it.

[Zimme83]

Imo speed is the single most important factor for a plane, faster planes can always dictate the terms and simply run for it if its getting too hot.

But why is this "myth" about the überness of slow turner still around?

[Wiley]

Imo speed is the single most important factor for a plane, faster planes can always dictate the terms and simply run for it if its getting too hot.

But why is this "myth" about the überness of slow turner still around?

Because people get slow with them and die badly because their SA failed them.  Or, occasionally they get slapped down by an altmonkey in a turnybird.  A brew with enough alt on you has a very good chance of killing your late war speed demon unless you do the right things.  If you happen to get too slow, a Zeke will ruin your day if he happens to get close to you with enough speed and outaccelerates you when you go to extend.

Wiley.

[Zimme83]

Because people get slow with them and die badly because their SA failed them.  Or, occasionally they get slapped down by an altmonkey in a turnybird.  A brew with enough alt on you has a very good chance of killing your late war speed demon unless you do the right things.  If you happen to get too slow, a Zeke will ruin your day if he happens to get close to you with enough speed and outaccelerates you when you go to extend.

Wiley.

Brewsters and Wildcats in a dive can be really dangerous even to faster planes. And yes - most of the time people are getting too low and slow and fails to look around them (and then complain when they die...)

[The Fugitive]

Tnb is a type of flying, not an airplane.

A person who excels and a Tnb style of fighting has already mastered a bnz style and is bored with it. This is why Tnb "pilots" are the better players, not the better planes.

[Wiley]

Tnb is a type of flying, not an airplane.

A person who excels and a Tnb style of fighting has already mastered a bnz style and is bored with it. This is why Tnb "pilots" are the better players, not the better planes.

I disagree with that a fair bit.  From what I've seen if you take the average newb, the first thing they're going to want to do is yank and bank.  The KDRs for the twisty things IMO are due to a combination of newbs and vets that generally don't care if they die.  The vets that care if they die fly faster stuff.

A decent TnB flyer can generally transfer over to BnZing decently as well, but a guy that only ever sticks to the BnZ-attempt rope-BnZ loop, no matter how polished he may be in that role, isn't going to find a ton of skill transfer if he tries to turnfight in something that's slow.  I'll grant you that.

Wiley.

[caldera]

Even The P-40 variants beat most TnB:ers in k/d ratio.

The P-40's worst enemies are the uber turning planes.  Most other planes can escape from them at some point.  P-40s have glacial acceleration and a lower top end speed.  My heart sinks when I see a Zero or B-239 co-alt or above, because there is no way to turn with them and they will run me down too. 

As for a better K/D, typically a lower number of pilots take up a P-40 (mostly P-40 fans, who have some experience in it), as opposed to the EZ-mode Brewstard, which can influence the stats to make it appear that the P-40 is superior. 

[Zimme83]

The P-40's worst enemies are the uber turning planes.  Most other planes can escape from them at some point.  P-40s have glacial acceleration and a lower top end speed.  My heart sinks when I see a Zero or B-239 co-alt or above, because there is no way to turn with them and they will run me down too. 

As for a better K/D, typically a lower number of pilots take up a P-40 (mostly P-40 fans, who have some experience in it), as opposed to the EZ-mode Brewstard, which can influence the stats to make it appear that the P-40 is superior. 

I love to see a P-40, knowing its an easy kill if he decides to figth, P-40 loose E so fast that anything can reverse the E stats and then having an easy kill.
Have tried the P-40:s, I really want to love them but... its a veryveryvery useless plane in the Ma. A lot of faster planes can outturn u too so u have no strenght at all to use.

[caldera]

I love to see a P-40, knowing its an easy kill if he decides to figth, P-40 loose E so fast that anything can reverse the E stats and then having an easy kill.
Have tried the P-40:s, I really want to love them but... its a veryveryvery useless plane in the Ma. A lot of faster planes can outturn u too so u have no strenght at all to use.

Useless?  Quite the contrary, when a third rate hack named after a 50/50 poly/cotton, sleeved blanket has more than 2,000 kills in them.  And a rather respectable K/D to boot. 

You better bring your "A" game though, that is if you dare to venture out of that kiddie plane.   

[Zimme83]

Useless?  Quite the contrary, when a third rate hack named after a 50/50 poly/cotton, sleeved blanket has more than 2,000 kills in them.  And a rather respectable K/D to boot. 

You better bring your "A" game though, that is if you dare to venture out of that kiddie plane.   

Imo: If a guy become the No 1 fighter pilot lying only the P-40 i will name him/her the best pilot in the game. P-40 are good BnZ:er but need friends in the area to survive.

[DmonSlyr]

Imo speed is the single most important factor for a plane, faster planes can always dictate the terms and simply run for it if its getting too hot.

But why is this "myth" about the überness of slow turner still around?

It is

Flying the tempest in January, I was able to escape from a lot of gangs because I could simply run away from all of them. I didn't get low n slow, and I used the plane for what it does best. I was capable of staying alive because I could get away from trouble without having to worry too much about other planes catching me. This is kind of a boring way to fly, but in real life you would be very happy about it.


A TnB plane cannot get away from a gang unless you out turn a 5-1 and win the fight. You will have to be very good defensively and know advanced ACM to be able to win the fight Vs a group of cons. In a 1v1 fight, if I'm in a P38 Vs a Zeke, if I get slow against it, it will win every time if I cannot dive away. If I don't use my E and speed wisely, I will be an easy kill. Now if it was the Zeke Vs 5 P38s, it would be very difficult for the Zeke to gain any type of advantage. 


That's why you don't see very many #1 pilots in zekes and Fm2 because they are out matched and getting ganged in them will happen a lot. No matter how good your SA is, you will die simply because you will have a very hard time escaping multiple con situations.