Author Topic: How or Why we will reverse global warming  (Read 36211 times)

Offline WWhiskey

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3122
Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #315 on: October 11, 2015, 10:29:45 AM »
First you were impying that there is no concesus and when I show you that there is, then concesus means nothing. You are also assuming that all scientist but those who are against MMGW are bought and have an agenda to hide the truth from the people. But that argument can as easily be used the other way around..
first off,, scientific method doesn't include "a consensus"
Secondly,, I've posted names you've posted numbers,
Third,, if their was an Einstien of climate science,, he would be on every network 24/7 , or maybe not,, since Einstien would tell you nothing can be measured with absolute accuracy without all relavent factors.
Do you know all relavent factors to the climate of the earth?
If so please list your findings.

 Or Believe what you want, 98% of the population ,( including scientists) once thought the world was flat, how'd that work out?
Flying since tour 71.

Offline NatCigg

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3336
Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #316 on: October 11, 2015, 10:46:49 AM »
I thought scientific method did depend on consensus.  Until proven wrong it is s theory.  A theory is not a law.  Causation requires the use of Koch's postulates.   :bolt:

Offline pembquist

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1928
Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #317 on: October 11, 2015, 11:01:02 AM »
 Its true, "the scientific method" does not depend on consensus, however political policy decisions do. I would say that what gets everybody excited is the prospect of government policy that they dislike.

You are correct that a theory is not a law, however the common use of phrases such as "its just a theory" used with regard to scientific theory illustrate that the meaning of theory as used in science is not understood by a great number of people.

Pies not kicks.

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3073
Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #318 on: October 11, 2015, 11:16:57 AM »
In science a Theory is as close as you can get. It requiers a lot before a hypothesis is upgraded to a theory. A hypothesis is strenghen if several studies or experiments can confirm the original findings.

Climate research is a complex subject and its hard to predict the future. The consencus is that human activites do  have an impact on the climate. The question is how much and what are the consequenses. The debate is pretty much between those who want to hope for the best and those who wants to plan for the worst.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11617
      • Trainer's Website
Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #319 on: October 11, 2015, 11:26:37 AM »
What science requires is verifiable data that isn't changed or ignored to fit theories.  Consensus would have us living in caves afraid of fire.

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3073
Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #320 on: October 11, 2015, 11:41:41 AM »
Agree.

IMO the problem is that when the subject reaches outside the scientific world there are a lot of personal opinions added, so the debate is rarley about what we really know.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11617
      • Trainer's Website
Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #321 on: October 11, 2015, 11:45:54 AM »
When I was young it only took a few years to know everything.

I'd rather not say how long it took to learn what I don't know.   :D

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3073
Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #322 on: October 11, 2015, 11:53:05 AM »
True. We now know so much that we know that we might not be more than a hologram.

Key problem with the climate is that it is not sure that we have the time to figure out how it really is. That mean that we might need to make decisions on what we assume would happen and then it becomes a bit more tricky.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline DREDIOCK

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17773
Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #323 on: October 11, 2015, 12:27:38 PM »
Ice is shrinking so fast in the north they're already preparing to evacuate ice dependant villages...  Can we do something to reverse this for the next generation, or is the next generation just iphones and suv's with long commutes...?  Your own fate is in front of your own eyes...  The more conversation we have about this the better chance we have if anyone cares anymore....

Yea. Its called a "nuclear winter"

The globe has been cooling, and warming, and cooling and warming for as long as its been in existence and on average around every 10,000 years or so. If you look at a certain famous persons hoaky stick graph. You will see we are pretty much right on schedule.

Man.. or "Human kind" to be PC has been forced to up and move due to weather and climate changes for as long as we have been guests on this blue/green orb.  Thee is no reason whatsoever to think that  outside of a worldwide cataclysmic event such as an asteroid strike or the sun exploding these patterns wont continue indefinitely.

Ok so maybe the earth is warming. So what. Its been warmer before as is indicated by the fossils in the rock being found under where the ice is.

It isnt global warming we fear or cooling either for that matter. Its change. Fear of the unknown. The different. Ok. So maybe it will sop raining in some areas. It also means it will probably rain more in others. "The seas will rise" Oh my goodness. like thats never happened before!

Fear not little ones. Everything will be fine in spite of what the chicken little alarmists would have you believe
Yanno whats going to happen? Human kind will do what we have always done what we have proved time and time again to be superior at with much much less technology available as we have now. We will adapt and find new ways to exploit whatever happens. And this is already beginning to take place as as new shipping routes are being opened.

Instead of worrying about how to stop or reverse the inevitable. Think on how to take advantage of it. You'll sleep better at night if you look at it not so much as a threat. But as a new opportunity
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline FBKampfer

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 642
Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #324 on: October 11, 2015, 01:03:41 PM »
Yea. Its called a "nuclear winter"

The globe has been cooling, and warming, and cooling and warming for as long as its been in existence and on average around every 10,000 years or so. If you look at a certain famous persons hoaky stick graph. You will see we are pretty much right on schedule.

Man.. or "Human kind" to be PC has been forced to up and move due to weather and climate changes for as long as we have been guests on this blue/green orb.  Thee is no reason whatsoever to think that  outside of a worldwide cataclysmic event such as an asteroid strike or the sun exploding these patterns wont continue indefinitely.
Yeah, but 10,000 years on a geological scale is nothing. If you're actually proposing that that cycle grinding to a halt in the space of 200 years (and I'm not saying it has or necessarily will) is just to expected at some point, you're an idiot. That's not how things work.

Quote
Ok so maybe the earth is warming. So what. Its been warmer before as is indicated by the fossils in the rock being found under where the ice is.

That's not why there's fossils in polar and subpolar regions. It's called plate tectonics, dummy. The surface is floating around on an ocean of molten rock, and slides around.

A ten million years ago, the continents weren't anywhere near where they are now. Same goes for ten million years before that, and before that, ad infinitum. Well, at least back until the crust solidified, and tectonics began.


But point is that the temperature had damn all to do with fossil formation.

Quote
It isnt global warming we fear or cooling either for that matter. Its change. Fear of the unknown. The different. Ok. So maybe it will sop raining in some areas. It also means it will probably rain more in others. "The seas will rise" Oh my goodness. like thats never happened before!

Okay, then I'm officially putting you in charge of the problem. Your job is now to make sure we have enough food at an affordable cost. Also you can't turn away refugees, since you'll probably say it's up to them to take care of themselves, which would include moving out of a barren desert.


Also, you're officially in charge of relocating everyone on the coast inland. Specifically, you're required to salvage 75% of everything, so we don't leave tens of trillions worth of progress at the bottom of our newly expanded coastal shelf.

Quote
Fear not little ones. Everything will be fine in spite of what the chicken little alarmists would have you believe
Yanno whats going to happen? Human kind will do what we have always done what we have proved time and time again to be superior at with much much less technology available as we have now. We will adapt and find new ways to exploit whatever happens. And this is already beginning to take place as as new shipping routes are being opened.

Instead of worrying about how to stop or reverse the inevitable. Think on how to take advantage of it. You'll sleep better at night if you look at it not so much as a threat. But as a new opportunity

Yeah, adapt, exploit, take advantage of. Excellent verbiage for dealing with crisis. I'm sure some love muffin can find a way to profit off of NYC being flooded out and Africa becoming a desert. Because that's all that matters. Exploitation of misfortune to improve your own life.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 01:09:08 PM by FBKampfer »
AvA Development Group
Freebird SAC member

Great men are forged in fire; it is the privilege of lesser men to light the flames.

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11617
      • Trainer's Website
Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #325 on: October 11, 2015, 01:48:21 PM »
Just imagine if Africa became like the Sahara desert.  Over a 1000 year period. And everybody waited to move. While the rest of the world changed as little as it has in the last 1000 years.

You can change 1000 to 500 if you prefer that model.




Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3073
Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #326 on: October 11, 2015, 01:58:09 PM »
If the change takes several hundred years it is no problem, people will adapt, if it takes 10-20 years its a different matter. Many of those effected are also very poor and they don't have the resources to adapt. They can move but they might not be welcome in the new area. (especially if that is in the West...)
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11617
      • Trainer's Website
Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #327 on: October 11, 2015, 02:03:35 PM »
Good thing the temp has been flat the last 18 years.   :aok

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3073
Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #328 on: October 11, 2015, 02:17:10 PM »
I would not say flat but...


To see any trends you need to look over a longer periods of time.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11617
      • Trainer's Website
Re: How or Why we will reverse global warming
« Reply #329 on: October 11, 2015, 02:23:06 PM »
I would not say flat but...
(Image removed from quote.)

To see any trends you need to look over a longer periods of time.

You said a big change over 10-20 years would be a problem.  Change your mind?

Have you noticed a big difference in the last 18 years?

Notice it was getting colder before it got warmer?

Around 1970 is when scientists warned about global cooling.  :D

You might wonder why scientists worried about global cooling then, when the data now looks like warming then flat.

It would make more sense if the temp data was corrected up and a cooling trend disappeared.  :D  I'm sure there's a good explanation for that.

« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 02:40:22 PM by FLS »