Spit XIV and Ki-84

[Karnak]

Urchin,

Not everything I post is trageted at you personally.  My comments were directed collectively at those who constantly harp about the Spitfire and N1K2.

If you don't like the, propose a solution that is fair and equitable to fans of both styles.  Telling them to learn how to fly a "real" fighter is just plain insulting.

You keep ignoring my stance on the Spitfire MkXIV as well.  I personally don't want it in AH, but I think that it is relatively inevitable.  I hop that it is perked when it arrives.

A whole lot of you are acting like Chicken Little in regards to the Ki84.  We don't know how well it will perform.  In WB it was one of the best 10 fighters, IIRC.  If its too good it'll be perked just like the F4U-1C was.

I'm just tired of being whined at by a vocal chunk of the community because I don't constantly romance about Fw190s and Bf109s.

EDIT,

Why is it only valid to fly our favorite WWII aircraft?  Should I only fly Spitfire MkXIVs when they get added?

Maybe some people learned of the N1K2's existance through AH and took a fancy to it.  Maybe some people liked it before, but it wasn't their favorite.

I agree that most people fly it for the edge it gives, but so what.  Why can't they do that?

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]

[Urchin]

I have NEVER said that EVERYONE flies the Spit or N1K because it gives them an advantage. I HAVE said that probably 95% of the pilots that fly those planes (or in the case of the Spitfire XIV or F. 21 WOULD fly the plane) fly it because it gives them an advantage (or a "crutch", however you want to put it), because it is true.

Furthermore, you KNOW it is true. Why else would you say that if the Spitfire XIV was introduced it would have to be a perk plane? Would the legions of N1K pilots suddenly re-discover their love for the great old British warbird? Nooooooppppeee, I don't THINK that is the reason that it would become the most popular plane in the arena overnight.

 

I know your opinion on the Spit XIV.  Actually, despite the fact that I told you to give it a rest right at the beginning, the entire thread was not directed at you, personally.


 

EDIT,

Why is it only valid to fly our favorite WWII aircraft? Should I only fly Spitfire MkXIVs when they get added?

Maybe some people learned of the N1K2's existance through AH and took a fancy to it. Maybe some people liked it before, but it wasn't their favorite.

I agree that most people fly it for the edge it gives, but so what. Why can't they do that?

 

Thid doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, personally.  You say you are tired of people "whining" that people only fly the Spit and N1K for the "edge" it gives them (which I disagree with on the Spit, agree wholeheartedly for the N1K and La7)- but then YOU say that most people who fly those planes fly it for the "edge" it gives.  

Behind every stereotype there is at least SOME truth.  You can't acknowledge the fact that people fly the Spit or N1K for an edge, and then turn around and claim that people shouldn't assume individual pilots fly the SAME PLANE for an edge.  Why?  99% of the time they'll be right in their assumption.  Sure, in your case they may be wrong, but then you merely say "Actually, I've been a Spit fan for years, old boy", and suddenly the truth is out there.  What, are you concerned that people don't believe you when you say you are a Spit fan?

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]

[Tac]

"TAC, I beleive Pyro said "they will look into the FM for the N1k2, and change if needed" Not that it was porked and it will be changed, So the FM may or may not be porked, Not that is definately porked and being changed. BIG difference IMO"

Sunday HTC blue text talks revealed some changes were being made to the n1k, amongst other planes. I dont want the n1k to be porked, It was a good performing plane in RL. Whatever changes they making, be them the introduction of drag on their auto-flap system or correction in their lift or the addition of Torque effect on that plane, its bound to bring the plane closer to earthly physics.

The ki84 and SpitXIV would really mess up the MA balance in the same way the CHOG did back in those dark days. fast, great turners... why fly any other plane? Result: no variety, HTC wasted efforts modeling other lower performing planes. *sarcasm mode on* Im sure that when the P-40C is introduced, 90% of the MA population will hop on it.. I mean, its such a great ride! Why fly that dinky 1945 plane? *sarcasm mode off* get my point? Its happening right now, the incredible amount of late war planes in the MA just show this trend... and the la7 does require a minimal amount of skill to fly. Imagine what will happen when the population gets an la7 speedo-like + spit-like turning plane? MA will go to hell.

[NUTTZ]

Urchin, I cannot believe you can say you fly LW steel because it's your favorite plane, But N1K2 and la-7 Pilots only fly it because of it's advantage in the arena.

See, thats the point you can't see, You constantly attack the players and their beliefs, instead of attacking the plane.

And how can you say people in europe and the US never heard of the "george"?

Personally If HTC modeled the George's FM and it flew like a JUG I'd probably still fly it.

I couldn't give a rats bellybutton about spits or any LW iron. But to deny a plane with the production numbers on a major AXIS team is wrong, especially when IJN only has 3 planes as it is. Why should it be Denied? should HTC add more LW steel, and forget Japan all together?

Personally, I was ALWAYS fasinated with the pacific theater. Remember japan was still fighting the war long after Germany folded, to Limit IJN to 3 planes is just not balanced.

LW pilots are screaming about wanting to change Arnaments...

IJN pilots just want our planes!

I say... Bring on the Ki-84 it's long over due!
AND IJN light bombers.
NUTTZ

[NUTTZ]

No offence TAC, but what you are trying to say to me is....HTC screwed the pooch, and added too many late war planes,, so lets keep what we have and leave it alone?

I just can't understand why the KI-84 wouldn't be added? ESPECIALLY since the 262 is being added? How can a MAJOR plane mith MAJOR production numbers of the IJN be denied? Because it will disrupt game play? By acting the IJN was non-existant in WW2 is even worse.

NUTTZ


 

Originally posted by Tac:
"TAC, I beleive Pyro said "they will look into the FM for the N1k2, and change if needed" Not that it was porked and it will be changed, So the FM may or may not be porked, Not that is definately porked and being changed. BIG difference IMO"

Sunday HTC blue text talks revealed some changes were being made to the n1k, amongst other planes. I dont want the n1k to be porked, It was a good performing plane in RL. Whatever changes they making, be them the introduction of drag on their auto-flap system or correction in their lift or the addition of Torque effect on that plane, its bound to bring the plane closer to earthly physics.

The ki84 and SpitXIV would really mess up the MA balance in the same way the CHOG did back in those dark days. fast, great turners... why fly any other plane? Result: no variety, HTC wasted efforts modeling other lower performing planes. *sarcasm mode on* Im sure that when the P-40C is introduced, 90% of the MA population will hop on it.. I mean, its such a great ride! Why fly that dinky 1945 plane? *sarcasm mode off* get my point? Its happening right now, the incredible amount of late war planes in the MA just show this trend... and the la7 does require a minimal amount of skill to fly. Imagine what will happen when the population gets an la7 speedo-like + spit-like turning plane? MA will go to hell.

[Karnak]

Tac,

I'd hardly call the Spitfire MkXIV and Ki84 "dinky 1945 planes".

The Spitfire MkXIV entered service on January 4th, 1944.  You can't get much earlier ad still be in 1944.

The Ki84 entered service in April, 1944.  While not as early as the Spit 14, it is still clearly a 1944 aircraft.

I completely agree with you that the Spitfire MkXIV is a perk plane.  Its performance characteristics make it too deadly to have it any other way.

The Ki84 may or may not be a perk plane IMHO.  It depends how it pans out in performance.

[Karnak]

NUTTZ,

Er, um, the Ki84 isn't an IJN aircraft.

IJN = Imperial Japanese Navy

IJN naming conventions are as follows:

A = Carrier borne fighter
6 = Sixth aircraft in that role to enter service
M = Manufacturer is Mitsubishi
5 = Fifth major variant of the aircraft in question
b = Third minor varient of the major variant in question

Another example:

B = Torpedo bomber
7 = Seventh aircraft in that role to enter service
A = Manufacturer is Aichi
2 = Second major variant of the aircraft in question

Here are some role codes, so far as I can tell:

A = Carrier borne fighter
B = Torpedo bomber
D = Dive bomber
G = Land based bomber
H = Recon flying boat
J = Interceptor (May include "Land based" in its definition)
M = Suicide rocket?
N = Land based fighter
P = Fast bomber or recon bomber?

Here are some manufacturer codes:

A = Aichi
K = Kawanishi
M = Mitsubishi
N = Nakajima
Y = Yokosuka


IJA = Imperial Japanese Army

The IJA, on the other hand, named aircraft strictly based on the order in which they entered service, or were ordered.  I'm not quite sure which.  There is also a subversion number added on.

Ki = All IJA aircraft are preceded by "Ki"
61 = Sixty-first aircraft in the IJA
II = Second major variant of the aircraft in question
b = Second or third minor variant of the major variant of the aircraft in question

So an IJA list could look like this:

Ki44-I
Ki45b
Ki46
Ki61-IIb
Ki67-Ia
Ki84-Ia

And there is no quick way to tell what the role of each aircraft was.

Ki44-I = Fighter
Ki45b = Heavy fighter
Ki46 = Recon
Ki61-IIb = Fighter
Ki67-Ia = Bomber
Ki84-Ia = Fighter


I hope that helps.

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]

[Hristo]

Geee, all this hype about Spit XIV makes me really scared of meeting it in my A-8. Hmm, maybe I will climb to 20k and always have my ack nest in sight, just in case. If I want to fly that lovely brick of A-8, I will just have to be a little (or much) more careful. Flying smart beats any plane characteristic, IMO.

You people keep forgetting the perk system. How can anything unbalance the arena when perk system is here ?

Last year when C-Hog was unperked it was most common plane I met in the sky. And it was real trouble for the Fw 190A-8.

Now, in tour 17 I shot few F4Us down. I was delighted about the number of C-Hogs I shot. Checking my stats, I was disapointed, none of them was C model, all were Ds. Go figure   .

The perk system works. Even a very cheap 8 point perk cured the C-Hog menace. What makes you think perks won't work in case of XIV or 84, or any other plane that gets overused ?

Dynamic perk system is the answer to this, and the best equalizer. IMO, of course.

The best justification for Spit XIV and Ki 84 are latest planes included. La-7, D-9 and 262. If any of planes turns out too dominant - we get perk system to work. Simple, isn't it ?

P.S.
Oh, just remembered. The Me 262 is here. Spit XIV ? Tempest ? What are they, some kind of planes ?

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: Hristo ]

[Naso]

I'd say:

bring the ki-84 and spit.XIV to AH!!

We need this sim to evolve, I need more planes to fly and enjoy!

And if MA (and in your heads seem MA is the only arena here) get unbalanced, we have the perk system.

At the beginning, in the old days, I was against the perk system but now, I've changed my mind, it works!, and the hogC is there (in hangars) to prove that.

Sure, in last tours the huge numbers of niki, and in less degree, la7 and spits, is little anoyng and boring, but numbers are'nt still enough to ask for perking them.

As I recall, the perk system was introduced as substitution of the RPS (and is better, IMHO), with the only reason to limitate the overusage of the uberplanez that will rulez the MA  

As for business decisions, we have here people loving specifical planes or countrys, people willing to rulez the arena (called usually quakeheads   ), and people liking the simulation of WWII warbirds fights.
ALL of them pay for AH, and have the same right to use it as they want, the tough work for HTC staff is to balance the issues between all the customers, and IMHO they are doing a good work (great idea the CT).

[troll and flam mode on]

Urchin, you are a luftwhiner
Nuttz, you are a niki-dweeb
Hristo, come back, you traitor

 
[troll and flame mode off]