P38J vs P51B MA 1v1 Flight Review

[JunkyII]

This is a fight between myself and another pilot in the MA, I won't post his name but he definitely knows how to bend the wings on a P51B better then most I've encountered(Certainly the best I've ran into in the Main Arena). I will be giving my thoughts on the fight and pointing out some things that will help the average MA stick to get better and be able to hang in these types of fights....some of the tips will actually help with any sort of fight like this first one....(Note:This engagement is a 1v1 and the views shown aren't from in game....I'm actually looking all over while this fight is happening....it helps to see the other plane for training purposes)

0:00- Never assume anything about the red guy you are fighting. Normal P51 engagements usually are very stale and don't require any sort of talent to evade BnZ attempts or to get them running scared home....I came in too cocky and arrogant, what I should have done is get more separation, either vertical or horizontal, in order to obtain better angles in the merge. In this case horizontal would have been the best bet, I already have an E advantage from what I could see so maybe a semi flat turn merge would have got me up under his 3-9 line better....I could what if it all day, in the end my E merge worked but my foe recognized it and reset the fight which reflects greatly on the experience of this Aces High vet...most will normally try to perform a double immelmen there only to get caught with their belly up trying to roll it back over.

Fight is reset and we are merging at very low speeds, myself (The P38J) should have an advantage in this fight but by now I know I'm up against someone with some good dueling techniques because 1. I see them all the time in KOTH and the DA and 2. HE ISN'T TAKING HO SHOTS.....both of us have them, WE KNOW THIS....but taking a 50 50 shot isn't what we want in the game....we would rather die after a long drawn out fight then to a joust. Against a good stick like this, I know better then most...it is any given Sunday, mistakes...missed shots are going to happen just got to keep fighting and don't give up.

01:27 I turn nose low and dump E trying to get around faster....what I really did was Co E the fight which set up for a shot that I got lucky he missed. What I should have done was a nose high turn up toward my opponent so I had the position going into the rolling scissors (which ended up more vertical by the end). I did my manuever because at some points you are guessing as to what your opponent is going to do next....he went nose high when I thought he might also dump nose down to get more energy, my hesitation when I saw my guess was wrong is pretty obvious at the 01:27 mark.....when you get into these situations all you can do is keep fighting, an extend would have got my clear of this fight for the time being but would have put him on my 6....I know he is good and that's not where I want a decent pilot waiting to see what I will do next, because at that point all he has to do is counter it, there's not much guessing there.(Maybe in R/L but in here...once someone like Bruv or TC has your complete 6...your chances of getting back are between zero and a missed shot by them)

02:20 I come "over the top" too soon, should have help my nose up a bit longer to insure I got a shot. I got excited and thought I could pull in for one....again I get lucky he missed his shot.

03:15 Notice the slight movements my foe is doing as I get shots(Not stick stirring at all, he is just slightly changing his flight path within the angle he needs to close on a shot on me)....03:15 is a good example but any time I'm about to get a shot he adjusts his flight path....it isn't much but It's enough to throw off people with even the best aim (Grizz actually gave me this advice after duels I had with him 4-5 years ago) If you can imagine 2 lines intersecting the plane...one with the wing (The 3 9 line) and one through the nose to tail (The planes flight path) both of these are where you should be looking to determine what you need or should do next against a foe. The 3 9 line really helps you determine angles...whether to pull lead or lag ect ect...the line through the nose should help you set up shots when the opportunity comes or to get your plane out of theirs when on the defensive.(Pointing your 3 9 line at the nose of an aircraft  and keeping it there or in front will save you from a lot of pickers in the MA....I'll see if I can find a good defensive film I have recorded)

Extend that line from the nose forward a few plane lengths, this should be in your mind when your about to shoot, you aim your nose where that imaginary line is then shoot the air where you think bullets and his plane will intersect....having this intersection at your convergence makes for the most lethal shooting.


Feel free to add on, correct, tell me I'm bad or whatever you want. I feel most people (To include many Veteran Aces High players) have never actually experienced this type of fight in their Aces High experience and it would be nice to see more interested in it...the more doing it...the more the fights will happen.

Hope this helps any people wanting to become better at the art of the fight in Aces High. To the trainers, I have a bunch of film I can send your way if you want to review them and post them up to help others get better...you know tell them "don't pull a Junky here" or "finally Junky did something right here" (and myself...because yes I do want to be the best )



 

[Puma44]

Junky, some good maneuvering.  Without knowing your energy state, two areas of improvement come to mind while watching the video.   1.  A bit more use of the vertical.  Maneuvering appears to be mostly in the horizontal.  Again, energy state may have been dictating what you could do.  2. Use of the lift vector while working against the opponent.  Have you heard of the "energy egg"?  Understanding the energy egg concept in combination with use of your lift vector might help you tighten up the fight. 

Overall, good job against the B model.   

[JunkyII]

Junky, some good maneuvering.  Without knowing your energy state, two areas of improvement come to mind while watching the video.   1.  A bit more use of the vertical.  Maneuvering appears to be mostly in the horizontal.  Again, energy state may have been dictating what you could do.  2. Use of the lift vector while working against the opponent.  Have you heard of the "energy egg"?  Understanding the energy egg concept in combination with use of your lift vector might help you tighten up the fight. 

Overall, good job against the B model.   

Just watched it back...I've been told I use the vertical TOO much before and looking at this film I may have broke that habit and built another.

Yea I check out the trainer section a bit and read into it....I don't learn well from reading or pictures....more of a hands on type/video learner...so I admit I look at it in a completely confused look. I think it was Badboy who had the Rolling scissors GIF on here....now that helped my game a ton years ago.

But I think what your getting at is a more straight vertical manuever instead of turning a bit left or right going vertical?

[Puma44]

Junky, as you know this is a very fluid time and there are numerous variables to deal with.  That being said and not knowing what your energy potential was at the time, there were a couple of times that it looked like a more vertical flight track and adjusting your lift vector in relation to his might have made his job more difficult and given you more of an advantage.  Obviously, there has to be energy potential available to go pure vertical, if needed.

As you mentioned, it is difficult to read about it and then put it into play effectively.  I too, am very much a hands on learner.  Keep at it.  You've got a good start. 

[LCADolby]

The merge is where all the issues begin for the P51. There is no attack for him, the merge put him straight on the back foot, out of position and lacking the energy it's defending position from the get go.

[Puma44]

Dolby makes a good point.  The merge typically sets the stage for who's going to get the first shot.  That is decided by the state of stored energy potential and proper use of the lift vector to get the other guy in a square corner from the get go. Forcing the opponent to burn energy while you are preserving yours is key to getting the first shot.

Additionally, a time tested rule:  "Lose sight, lose fight".

[Vudak]

I haven't had a chance to watch the film yet as I'm reading from my phone, but I really enjoy threads like this and hope to see more. I wish HiTech would give us an option to "save as in incognito" because while it is classy of you to scrub the names, from the comments here it seems as though we're missing speeds and other benefits of film viewer.

[DmonSlyr]

To me, the P51B was in a defensive position from the start and looked to do a nose down turn to create a merge. I could see that Junky had the E on the first merge, but the P51B tried to get a quick lucky shot off it but then corrected himself by not following even further. Junky was smart by using the E and separation to his advantage in the first Emil. It was actually pretty nice defensive flying by the P51B extending the fight that long after Junky regained the 6. You don't see that too often, so I hope people can take note of that in these types of situations.


Everyone here is correct that a little more verticle may have given the absolute advantage for the win.  For example, One part I noticed that could have changed the fight for you was at 1:57. I am guilty of this too sometimes, and there can be a price to pay against really good turny birds with great lift vectors and roll around. Notice how you rolled down over the P51B after the cross in order to pull off a shot, which allowed the P51 to attempt a BRD and almost pulled off the shot around the 2:10 mark. Here, if you would have pulled another Emil over the top, you would have had either a better angle or put the P51 right back on your 12. (After re-reading your initial post, you did point that out yourself actually).  If the P51 pulled up for a HO after, you could pull back up, rope, and get the shot coming back down. If it weren't for that one instance, it may have not made the fight as long as it did.

Other than that, excellent flying. Both planes were pushed to the full envelope and Junky held on for the win!

[JOACH1M]

Pony B got owned.

I've seen 2 weekers do better...

[49Dallas]

Nice to see threads like this.

[Krupinski]

Pony B got owned.

I've seen 2 weekers do better...

lmao it was probably some War Thunder PS4 mouse aim scrub.

[JunkyII]

Pony B got owned.

I've seen 2 weekers do better...

lmao it was probably some War Thunder PS4 mouse aim scrub.

These squeekers

[Puma44]

What's a "great lift vector"?

[Krupinski]

"Lift Vector" is the direction in which an aircraft has the most lift potential (aka pulling back on the stick). The term has nothing to do with how well an aircraft turns.

When somebody says "Stay out of their lift vector" it means to angle your plane so that your pursuer cannot simply pull back on the stick for a shot.

Hopefully that clears up any confusion @DmonSlyr @Puma44

After watching the film again IMO both pilots were relying too much on their flaps.. though don't take my word for it as my flying style has evolved quite a bit since I've been playing other sims. The P38 could have easily used its climb rate to gain a bit more E, which means a better turning circle on the down slope. It could have gone the other way too, the P38 was using heavy flaps.. had the P51 noticed he could have tried to gain a bit more E, thus turning the fight in his favor.

 Getting low and slow in a stall fight is good and all, it's one of my favorite things to do.. but when it comes down to it, the best way to win a fight is to look for the angles that'll put you on top with more energy.

[DmonSlyr]

My apologies, I always read lift vector as a stall to lift ratio. Maybe there is a word for that? So for example, if Junky would have been fighting against a Nik and at 1:57 tried to roll over it after the merge, the Nik would have been able to use its lift to stall ratio to easily roll around on Junky, much better than the P51 could do. Can some planes not have better lift vectors than other? Have you seen the 110 or A20 use the verticle? They can beat most planes in a rolling scissors because of how well they can use lift, ie. How easily it can get the nose back up after coming down during a rolling scissors.