Author Topic: Dogfight : F35 vs F16  (Read 79361 times)

Offline DaveBB

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #885 on: September 05, 2016, 09:23:32 AM »
The U.S should have went with the F-22 and the FB-22.  The cost of maintaining a jet over its lifetime is far higher than the actual cost of buying one (by about 5x if I remember correctly). 
Currently ignoring Vraciu as he is a whoopeeed retard.

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #886 on: September 05, 2016, 11:25:04 AM »
The U.S should have went with the F-22 and the FB-22.  The cost of maintaining a jet over its lifetime is far higher than the actual cost of buying one (by about 5x if I remember correctly).

Your sentiments are exactly right. 

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Offline LCADolby

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #887 on: September 05, 2016, 12:11:11 PM »
I have a lifetime of experience in aviation.   That makes me an expert. 

I know the right answers because I know where to look and who to ask.  It isn't that hard. 

I don't buy "official talking points" particularly when they don't align with reality. YMMV.
Have you flown the F35 or F16 into combat?
Have you engaged in any form of aerial combat for your country?
Have you written a thesis comparing and contrasting both aircraft?
If your answer is no, you are not an expert.
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #888 on: September 05, 2016, 12:52:04 PM »
Have you flown the F35 or F16 into combat?
Have you engaged in any form of aerial combat for your country?
Have you written a thesis comparing and contrasting both aircraft?
If your answer is no, you are not an expert.

He's really not even worth replying to. I suggest we all let this thread die unless someone has something technical to offer.
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Offline morfiend

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #889 on: September 05, 2016, 01:54:56 PM »
 He was almost right on point 4!!!

   The Canadians arent trying to drop it we have dropped it as the money allocated to purchase has been put to better use!

  We will feed,house and school many people with those funds!

  Oh ya and give them free healthcare........ :devil


   IMHO,and I`m no expert but manned aircraft are obsolete,5 g`s or even 9 g`s arent going to cut the mustard when you can build a drone that can pull 20 or more G. Flood the sky with drones and they dont even need to be armed,just run into stuff!

  Our new PM wants 2 drones in every driveway and wifi across the country........... :devil


    :salute

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #890 on: September 05, 2016, 05:42:45 PM »
Have you flown the F35 or F16 into combat?
Have you engaged in any form of aerial combat for your country?
Have you written a thesis comparing and contrasting both aircraft?
If your answer is no, you are not an expert.

Keep dreaming, bub.   None of those are a requirement.   In fact, they can be a detriment.

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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #891 on: September 05, 2016, 05:43:41 PM »
He was almost right on point 4!!!

   The Canadians arent trying to drop it we have dropped it as the money allocated to purchase has been put to better use!

  We will feed,house and school many people with those funds!

  Oh ya and give them free healthcare........ :devil


   IMHO,and I`m no expert but manned aircraft are obsolete,5 g`s or even 9 g`s arent going to cut the mustard when you can build a drone that can pull 20 or more G. Flood the sky with drones and they dont even need to be armed,just run into stuff!

  Our new PM wants 2 drones in every driveway and wifi across the country........... :devil


    :salute

Bravo, Canada!!  Let's hope the other partner nations wise up and dump this turkey before it gets someone killed.  (I haven't seen anything that says Canada has actually pulled the trigger to get out of the Just So Failed program, however.)
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 05:45:17 PM by Vraciu »
”KILLER V”
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #892 on: September 05, 2016, 05:45:40 PM »
He's really not even worth replying to. I suggest we all let this thread die unless someone has something technical to offer.

Yes, don't let the facts derail your bias.   What does the Pentagon's chief weapons tester know any way?

 :aok
”KILLER V”
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #893 on: September 05, 2016, 05:47:08 PM »
He's really not even worth replying to. I suggest we all let this thread die unless someone has something technical to offer.

It will never die so long as the pom-pom girls are around, btw.
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Offline EskimoJoe

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #894 on: September 05, 2016, 06:34:57 PM »
It will never die so long as the pom-pom girls are around, btw.

Or you, apparently
Put a +1 on your geekness atribute  :aok

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #895 on: September 05, 2016, 06:42:27 PM »
Or you, apparently

I will continue to set the record straight for those open minded enough to listen. 
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Offline Gman

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #896 on: September 05, 2016, 11:36:00 PM »
Regarding the 65 planed Canadian F35s -

It hasn't been dropped from consideration, all that is happened is a party that won the election had an election promise to not buy it. 

What's actually happened is this - just 2 weeks ago, the Canadian government paid millions, nearly 40 to be exact, to remain an F35 partner and keep their seat at the table, as there has been a paper "contest" of sorts, with LM, Dassault, the Eurofighter group, MacDoug and the Superhornet people, and Saab having all sent representatives to plead the case for their fighter to replace the aging CF18s.  There will likely still be a real fly off/contest of sorts, however the F35 is STILL in the competition.  A good friend of mine for the last 30 years is the CO of our test fighter squadron and is right in the middle of all of this right now.  The F35 purchase has been cancelled, under the guise of it being chosen without any competition, but the F35 is STILL in contention, and is in fact rumored to be the leader in the paper competition so far, again, versus all the other aircraft.  The Liberal government knows that it'll look foolish if it wins, and has floated ideas such as doing what Australia did, buying Superhornets in small numbers, like 12 or 24, as an interim fix, however nothing has been decided yet.  All that they've done is promise to have a competition to see which of the currently available gen 4.5 and higher fighters would be the best buy. 

There have been flip flops less outrageous out there, so don't be surprised if the F35 in fact wins the official fly off, in whatever form that takes, and ends up being the CF18 replacement after all.  It's probably a coin flip right now, with the SuperHornet, either interim or full buy on one side, and the F35 on the other.  The Eurofighter is almost as much $ as the F35, the Rafale would render the RCAF's huge stocks of Aim120, Aim9, bombs, and gun ammo worthless and require complete replacement, and the Gripen has been declared "unfit" for the RCAF by insiders, for some unknown and likely ridiculous reason.

There is a huge economic factor here too, there are many parts and components for the F35 being constructed in Canada by Canadian aerospace companies in that industry, and those jobs = gone if the F35 isn't chosen, and Canada could face other penalties and economic fallout for dropping out.  I'm just saying that it's a part of this equation as well, not the be all end all part of the debate.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/f35-stealth-fighter-jet-1.3696269
Quote
Canada has so far forked over more than $311 million to develop the F-35 — without any guarantee it will actually buy the multibillion-dollar stealth fighter.

The most recent instalment was made June 24, when the Liberal government quietly paid $32.9 million to the U.S. program office overseeing development of the warplane, despite having promised during last year's election campaign not to buy the F-35.

The contribution keeps Canada at the table as one of the nine partners in the project for the next year. Partners get a discount when purchasing the stealth fighter, and have access to billions of dollars in contracts associated with producing the plane.

The only thing that is certain regarding the RCAF's fighter program right now is that the current CF18s are timed OUT.  The entire batch of nearly 140 that were purchased long ago were F18A and B models, which have been constantly upgraded along the way, and they all are very high time ariframes.  Our guys are constantly having issues sourcing and procuring parts and keeping them flying.  There are roughly 62 single seat and 18 2 seat fighters being upgraded to the current standard flying, the rest are either in mothballs/storage or have been canabilized here and there, and of those 80 only 35 at max are able to fly at any given time, and many of those are represented in the 410 training squadron and not combat coded and ready to fight.  So, with a huge, huge airspace to defend, as well as potential missions like the RCAF has been engaged in since 9/11 possibly coming up still, the bottom of the barrel has been scratched and gouged deep already.  Replacements are needed, and quickly.  The current government has decreed that Canada will no longer be involved in foreign offensive military ops, and that the fighter the RCAF needs is only required to defend NORAD airspace.   Obviously the F35 isn't optimized as an interceptor, which is what the mission calls for by this new "definition", so it's difficult to know what the future will bring.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 11:59:30 PM by Gman »

Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #897 on: September 06, 2016, 02:43:42 AM »
If defending Canadian airspace is the only mission (I find that somewhat ridiculous) then the EF2000 or F-15 (yes it's still in production) would be a better option than the F-35. The Rafale is also better and you can use the AIM-9s since they have the same interface as the French Magic II. AMRAAM and Meteor integration is also being developed for the Rafale. The only possible threat to Canada in the foreseeable future is from long range bombers. You don't need stealth to counter that... But governments, and priorities change.
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Offline LCADolby

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #898 on: September 06, 2016, 03:36:54 AM »
Keep dreaming, bub.   None of those are a requirement.   In fact, they can be a detriment.
Being an expert is detrimental to being an expert. What planet are you from?
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #899 on: September 06, 2016, 08:18:04 AM »
Being an expert is detrimental to being an expert. What planet are you from?

You're not getting it and I won't bother explaining as it wouldn't matter to you any way.

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