Battle of Palmyra. Last words...

[Zimme83]

If not for the Invasion of Iraq there had been no ISIS, we are simply facing the consequences of our bad decisions.

[GScholz]

That's just politically correct bullcrap spread by leftist apologists. ISIS/Daesh was established in 1999 in Jordan under the name of Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad, and has grown ever since. Daesh isn't one single organization, but an alliance of jihadist groups. In Mali for example the French are fighting Al-Mourabitoun, Ansar al-Sharia, Ansar Dine, AQIM, Boko Haram, Macina Liberation Front, and MOJWA.

[Zimme83]

That's just politically correct bullcrap spread by leftist apologists. ISIS/Daesh was established in 1999 in Jordan under the name of Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad, and has grown ever since. Daesh isn't one single organization, but an alliance of jihadist groups. In Mali for example the French are fighting Al-Mourabitoun, Ansar al-Sharia, Ansar Dine, AQIM, Boko Haram, Macina Liberation Front, and MOJWA.

Even the U.S Military have admitted it, google "camp Bucca" for a start.

[GScholz]

Saying that the invasion of Iraq created ISIS is just ignorant. Many inmates from Camp Bucca may have joined ISIS later on, but that is an entirely different matter. ISIS was founded in 1999 by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi under the name of Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad. Literally "The Organisation of Monotheism and Jihad".

[Arlo]

[rabbidrabbit]

Political thread or current events?  As long as people keep reasonable discourse, I hope it does not get locked.  We could use a few more good debate threads to drive traffic here.  There was a time where this forum was very active with a number of great discussions daily.  Along came a few heroes who kept pushing the limits and everything got shut down.  The greatest loser of that process was the community which has been but a small remnant of its former vibrant self.

[GScholz]

Terrorist thread! 

[Zimme83]

Saying that the invasion of Iraq created ISIS is just ignorant. Many inmates from Camp Bucca may have joined ISIS later on, but that is an entirely different matter. ISIS was founded in 1999 by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi under the name of Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad. Literally "The Organisation of Monotheism and Jihad".

ISIS was the result of a fusion of the Iraqi Al Quaida and the remains of the Baath party, the command structure of the Ex-Saddam regime allowed The extremism to become efficient on a previously unseen scale. Nothing of this would have happen Iraq hadnt been invaded. Saddam would not have allowed a group like AQ to gain any sort of power. The invasion created an environment that made it possible for a group like ISIS to be created and gain power, like it or not. It was not the intention but it was the unexpected side effect.

[rabbidrabbit]

That's just politically correct bullcrap spread by leftist apologists. ISIS/Daesh was established in 1999 in Jordan under the name of Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad, and has grown ever since. Daesh isn't one single organization, but an alliance of jihadist groups. In Mali for example the French are fighting Al-Mourabitoun, Ansar al-Sharia, Ansar Dine, AQIM, Boko Haram, Macina Liberation Front, and MOJWA.

This is pretty much correct.  The formation of the Islamic state itself though is only the result of a series of events.  To say it was the result of the 2003 invasion is a substantial reach, to the point of being irrational.  The political situation turned to poo afterwards due to the power vacuum caused by the invasion which led to the Sunni rebellion which became co opted by the Jihadis whom they originally welcomed as co conspirators.  After a couple years the Jihadis became far more of a threat to the Bathist/ Sunnis than the other option of a greater Iraqi reconciliation.  This lead to the Awakening which was essentially a US backed rebellion by the Bathists against their former allies, the Jihadis.  With the Awakening, the Jihadis were either killed or driven from Iraq and it looked like there was finally hope for a viable peace.  Unfortunately, The US change of leadership in 2009 lead to the complete withdrawal from involvement in Iraq and minimal involvement is supporting the Arab Spring which lead to the Islamist chaos we now see in the region.  By withdrawing from Iraq, the Shiites, backed by the Iranians pushed the Sunnis/ Bathist from the US brokered deals of shared power and they had but one real path to follow, right back into the arms of the same Islamists they had evicted from their lands years before.  Right now, the leadership of the Islamic State is comprised primarily of that Bathist/Islamist coalition.

So, saying it was caused by the 2003 invasion is at best marginally accurate.  When you walk away from power, other powers step into the void and bad things can happen.

[GScholz]

Zimme... By your logic it is Reagan and Gorbachev's fault for saving the world rather than blowing it up. One unintended consequence is that ISIS could be founded in 1999.

[guncrasher]

didnt the cia funded a few of the terrorists organizations at the begining?


semp

[rabbidrabbit]

didnt the cia funded a few of the terrorists organizations at the begining?


semp

Conspiracy theory or legit question?  A reasonable person would assume that whatever groups the CIA supported, they did so because they believed they were in alignment with US goals.

[guncrasher]

just like the cia supported every single dictator in central and south america?


semp

[GScholz]

Only the anti-communist ones.

[BuckShot]

Only the good bad guys, or is it bad good guys?