Author Topic: loss of members  (Read 28338 times)

Offline Masherbrum

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Re: loss of members
« Reply #90 on: June 27, 2016, 07:27:23 PM »
It would be a really stellar idea though to have that information in game.  Regardless of personal feelings on it, look at 95% of the rest of the games out there.  Copious amounts of help and hand holding available in game, right at your fingertips from the first time you start them up.  This is what people have come to expect.

Here, the information exists, but it's not right there available for you.  You have to go looking for it in relatively obscure places compared to most other games.

Wiley.

I would tune the Help Channel, which is number 6.   I lost count of the jerks tuned to it and lost chat privs because if the crap they typed.   

The Community has be willing to help in the first place.   The sad fact is, most won't.   I also lost count of hours spent in the TA informerly training newbies, while the "experts" hid under a rock and padded their scores. 

I am the one who will give the newbies the free pass and put the responsibility onto those who have been here long enough to know better.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 09:20:09 PM by Masherbrum »
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Offline bustr

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Re: loss of members
« Reply #91 on: June 27, 2016, 08:58:29 PM »
Saying that access to learning materials and related things is the problem that keeps newbies from staying with the game is like saying there has to be a law passed to make rednecks smarter while you hide in your gated community. Before 2009 newbies didn't read anything past finding out how to start the engine and get the gear up. They relied on following the missions around and listening to us in the missions.

If learning materials was the answer, anyone by age 10 can read the AH online hand book, look at the clipboard and get into the air. We had sqweekers doing just that up to 2009.

We lazy self indugent vets are the reason the newbies don't stay, and the ones who do won't fight. Because most of the moderate team oriented players willing to create fun left as the fortunes of our economy got bad. And because our community became a 24x7 cess pit of woe is me the newbies are killing this game, I can't find any fights and Hitech is a "bleeping something" because he killed our game.

You guys are the only vets left in the game, and universally you have some truly foul attitudes about the game, Hitech, and other players. So the newer younger players who stay, are just following what you are showing them to do.
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Offline LCADolby

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Re: loss of members
« Reply #92 on: June 27, 2016, 09:15:06 PM »
Pigs on the Wing members killed the game. Who in the world wants to read a wall of text that has so much anal... I mean analogies.  :o
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Offline wil3ur

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Re: loss of members
« Reply #93 on: June 27, 2016, 09:35:04 PM »
Never read any AH documentation, but I still have a printed copy of In Pursuit laying on my desk.  It's not the most informative of materials, but it's a great primer to basic ACM.  Everything after that is much better learned by trial and error.
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Offline Estes

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Re: loss of members
« Reply #94 on: June 27, 2016, 10:47:10 PM »
Hell, if there was online training/manuals that are at least comparable in scope to what we have now when I started I didn't know about them. I was told "get a copy of The Bible" - still have that book somewhere.

Offline Masherbrum

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Re: loss of members
« Reply #95 on: June 27, 2016, 10:58:26 PM »
Hell, if there was online training/manuals that are at least comparable in scope to what we have now when I started I didn't know about them. I was told "get a copy of The Bible" - still have that book somewhere.

Finally got mine personalized from the man himself at Dayton in 2008.
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Offline nrshida

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Re: loss of members
« Reply #96 on: June 28, 2016, 01:19:49 AM »
Our current lone wolf mentality by many vets who want the action brought to them will hurt the ability of the game to keep newbies. So you get lame game play directly due to the lack of an in game function that doubles as a mentoring and peer pressure process. Our current vets act as poorly and childish as the newbies they accuse of being the source of all the lame game play in the game that they feel is killing the game.

I absolutely disagree. You continue to project your perceptipn onto others. I am a lone-wolf and I do not want the action brought to me or everyone to play my way. I think it's not unreasonable to be able to find some other players who are also looking for combat in a combat simulator. That's the extent of our complaint (even though I don't speak for the others). With numbers so low the percentages of non-combatants proportionally rises.

The core cause for drop in numbers is likely environmental (external to the game, cultural shift, economics, alternative activities). The internal cause is disatisfied players which can't be caused by the minotity you persistantly and unwaveringly attack, because as I've mentioned already, you can't force someone to dogfight. But of course you take every opportunity to blame the players who you can apparently only view as exploiters.

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Offline Brooke

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Re: loss of members
« Reply #97 on: June 28, 2016, 01:26:31 AM »
Finally got mine personalized from the man himself at Dayton in 2008.

Sweet!  :aok

Offline FishBait

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Re: loss of members
« Reply #98 on: June 28, 2016, 08:28:17 AM »
Saying that access to learning materials and related things is the problem that keeps newbies from staying with the game is like saying there has to be a law passed to make rednecks smarter while you hide in your gated community. Before 2009 newbies didn't read anything past finding out how to start the engine and get the gear up. They relied on following the missions around and listening to us in the missions.

If learning materials was the answer, anyone by age 10 can read the AH online hand book, look at the clipboard and get into the air. We had sqweekers doing just that up to 2009.


We lazy self indugent vets are the reason the newbies don't stay, and the ones who do won't fight. Because most of the moderate team oriented players willing to create fun left as the fortunes of our economy got bad. And because our community became a 24x7 cess pit of woe is me the newbies are killing this game, I can't find any fights and Hitech is a "bleeping something" because he killed our game.

You guys are the only vets left in the game, and universally you have some truly foul attitudes about the game, Hitech, and other players. So the newer younger players who stay, are just following what you are showing them to do.

Who, exactly, are you talking to?

Perhaps it would be best if you just threw out the names of the players in question instead of casting a net over all the 'vets', so as not to cause any undue confusion. Right now you're painting with a pretty broad brush.

You know as well as I do that if you're not one of a handful of select members, no-one's going to join your missions. And if you're a knight - even if you are one of those select people - most times you won't get enough signed up to matter. I've tried in the past. After the 50th or so time of being ignored, I gave up. But yeah, it's our fault.

Speaking of POTW - my countrymen! I love your squad and its members. That being said, I'm not exactly seeing much in the way of POTW missions in my timezone. And by not much I mean pretty much none at all. At least not enough to be memorable. But yeah, it's our fault.

I routinely salute my opponents, PM them suggestions, and offer assistance in the TA/DA when I feel they might benefit from it. To date I haven't been taken up on an offer yet. I'm sure that's my fault too. Perhaps I should stop being lazy & self-indulgent, get off my butt, and go take some charm lessons. Because while I'm not sure why no-one seems interested in learning, I know now that it's surely my fault.

Alchemists are still running missions like clockwork, yes? Just like they always have. I was an alchemist for about a week when I first started. It is a great way to get noobs in the game. It's also a great way to learn to horde & ho (If that's your thing. It wasn't my thing so I left early.). They have the opportunity to teach new members the ropes, and instead they teach them gameplay tactics which further undermine everyone's fun but theirs. I guess it's their fault for not running missions right. Or maybe my fault again for allowing them to run them wrong?

Even if everything you assume is true - that it is all our fault - I don't think your plan of chastising everyone into complete agreement is going to work. So while it may be cathartic, this exercise doesn't have much hope of changing the current state of affairs. But by all means, give it a shot. I suggest we start with the aforementioned Alchemists, since they likely have one of (if not the) highest missions participation rates in the game. You get to browbeating them, and I'm sure that before long they'll be raising our newbie chicks up in a proper environment.



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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: loss of members
« Reply #99 on: June 28, 2016, 09:13:36 AM »
All this game needs is a few adjustments to the maps. A few new maps, an easy adjustment to the DA (furball area) where the fields are all green and there is no alt cap. 5 bases 5 miles apart for easy upping, no vulching, no ack hugging, and nothing but FFA madness. It would bring in a lot of players and create excitement. Then just a few tweaks to the MA maps. Less 25k mountains. 15 mile apart bases, funneled action such that you see on festers map, just a lil bit smaller parameters. I promise you would see a lot more people involved in the game. It has nothing to do with the players as much as it does the layout and playability of the maps. It's an easy fix.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: loss of members
« Reply #100 on: June 28, 2016, 09:39:58 AM »
I would tune the Help Channel, which is number 6.   I lost count of the jerks tuned to it and lost chat privs because if the crap they typed.   

The Community has be willing to help in the first place.   The sad fact is, most won't.   I also lost count of hours spent in the TA informerly training newbies, while the "experts" hid under a rock and padded their scores. 

I am the one who will give the newbies the free pass and put the responsibility onto those who have been here long enough to know better.

The sad fact is, most people aren't GOOD at it.  Just because someone is decent at the game doesn't mean they can impart how to do what they do to another person.  I know I'm one of them.  If people have specific questions I can and usually do answer them.  But when the question is "how do I get better?"  I've got very little.

Wiley.
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: loss of members
« Reply #101 on: June 28, 2016, 10:24:43 AM »
Saying that access to learning materials and related things is the problem that keeps newbies from staying with the game is like saying there has to be a law passed to make rednecks smarter while you hide in your gated community. Before 2009 newbies didn't read anything past finding out how to start the engine and get the gear up. They relied on following the missions around and listening to us in the missions.

If learning materials was the answer, anyone by age 10 can read the AH online hand book, look at the clipboard and get into the air. We had sqweekers doing just that up to 2009.

We lazy self indugent vets are the reason the newbies don't stay, and the ones who do won't fight. Because most of the moderate team oriented players willing to create fun left as the fortunes of our economy got bad. And because our community became a 24x7 cess pit of woe is me the newbies are killing this game, I can't find any fights and Hitech is a "bleeping something" because he killed our game.

You guys are the only vets left in the game, and universally you have some truly foul attitudes about the game, Hitech, and other players. So the newer younger players who stay, are just following what you are showing them to do.
I probably am considered to have a foul attitude so I'll bite.

The "lone wolfs" are normally the guys who bring POTW pretty good fights in the MA especially when we up in mass, not many of the other big squads up against us anymore for long...When's the last time Jokers stayed around to fight us?? :ahand

Most long timers I have issues with are just hypocrits or the way they play the game is truly toxic(bomb bailers,La7 runway vulchers, ect ect)....hell Sawzaw HOed me last night in a 2 v 1 even though I've personally received PMs from him about how Im a "c0rk sucker" for an HO...I've never done it, wingman might have :) (I thought we were cool after our DA encounter Saw??? I mean yea I probably was going to kill you and him but at least it would have been a good fight)

My biggest problems with the game right now are Resupply, and Man gun usage....I think Resupply should take longer to get initial town buildings up, and Man guns should not be enabled until VH or FHs are down. Resupply Solution would give base takers a better chance to take a field that was probaby not defended in the first place...which would cause people to start upping to defend more....With a restriction on man guns people would up more whirbs right??? Well at least it would be a scored sortie and the perks for the attacker would be higher.

Sent this from my phone so probably filled with mistakes lol.
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: loss of members
« Reply #102 on: June 28, 2016, 11:00:27 AM »
Who, exactly, are you talking to?

Perhaps it would be best if you just threw out the names of the players in question instead of casting a net over all the 'vets', so as not to cause any undue confusion. Right now you're painting with a pretty broad brush.

You know as well as I do that if you're not one of a handful of select members, no-one's going to join your missions. And if you're a knight - even if you are one of those select people - most times you won't get enough signed up to matter. I've tried in the past. After the 50th or so time of being ignored, I gave up. But yeah, it's our fault.

Speaking of POTW - my countrymen! I love your squad and its members. That being said, I'm not exactly seeing much in the way of POTW missions in my timezone. And by not much I mean pretty much none at all. At least not enough to be memorable. But yeah, it's our fault.

I routinely salute my opponents, PM them suggestions, and offer assistance in the TA/DA when I feel they might benefit from it. To date I haven't been taken up on an offer yet. I'm sure that's my fault too. Perhaps I should stop being lazy & self-indulgent, get off my butt, and go take some charm lessons. Because while I'm not sure why no-one seems interested in learning, I know now that it's surely my fault.

Alchemists are still running missions like clockwork, yes? Just like they always have. I was an alchemist for about a week when I first started. It is a great way to get noobs in the game. It's also a great way to learn to horde & ho (If that's your thing. It wasn't my thing so I left early.). They have the opportunity to teach new members the ropes, and instead they teach them gameplay tactics which further undermine everyone's fun but theirs. I guess it's their fault for not running missions right. Or maybe my fault again for allowing them to run them wrong?

Even if everything you assume is true - that it is all our fault - I don't think your plan of chastising everyone into complete agreement is going to work. So while it may be cathartic, this exercise doesn't have much hope of changing the current state of affairs. But by all means, give it a shot. I suggest we start with the aforementioned Alchemists, since they likely have one of (if not the) highest missions participation rates in the game. You get to browbeating them, and I'm sure that before long they'll be raising our newbie chicks up in a proper environment.
FishBait, get that knife away from POTW. Unless you've flown on our squad vox, just assume you know nothing about us. Most of our mission, which we refer to as Pig mass....are normally only pigs and people hanging on our vox. This isn't because we don't like the Knights or something but we do understand the size of our squad with another 12-15 countrymen creates an unstoppable horde...one that isn't fun for either side...yea the land grabbers get a base but was the fight for it worth it???EDIT: (Have you ever seen a base with all of POTW and JG11 over it??? Awesome to see that much cohesion in an attack group but literally there ain't enough red guys to go around...we hungry!!! )

We run pig missions and Waystin posts here every Tuesday  "visitors are welcome, PM a pig in game for vox channel" not many visitors show up these days and don't stay for good...we have a good time and I know for at least my part...try to make it enjoyable for everyone too.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 11:03:36 AM by JunkyII »
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: loss of members
« Reply #103 on: June 28, 2016, 11:24:30 AM »
fishbait, what time zone are you on?  we have squad knight every tuesday at 5 pst.  we participate in every fso.  saturday knights you will see us from 5 or 6 pst till early morning.

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Offline FishBait

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Re: loss of members
« Reply #104 on: June 28, 2016, 12:06:07 PM »
FishBait, get that knife away from POTW. Unless you've flown on our squad vox, just assume you know nothing about us. Most of our mission, which we refer to as Pig mass....are normally only pigs and people hanging on our vox. This isn't because we don't like the Knights or something but we do understand the size of our squad with another 12-15 countrymen creates an unstoppable horde...one that isn't fun for either side...yea the land grabbers get a base but was the fight for it worth it???EDIT: (Have you ever seen a base with all of POTW and JG11 over it??? Awesome to see that much cohesion in an attack group but literally there ain't enough red guys to go around...we hungry!!! )

We run pig missions and Waystin posts here every Tuesday  "visitors are welcome, PM a pig in game for vox channel" not many visitors show up these days and don't stay for good...we have a good time and I know for at least my part...try to make it enjoyable for everyone too.

I fail to see how anything I said was attacking the pigs, Junky, but if you or other squaddies took offense, none was intended. I always enjoy fighting alongside y'all. Nor was I attacking bustr. But I'm not going to sit back while someone essentially labels me an idiot without getting in my .02.

You yourself just admitted you don't see much interest in pig-hosted missions anymore (outside the pigs), but 'We' are all to blame for not hosting missions (which will garner ZERO interest)? That doesn't compute. Failing to engage in pointless endeavors does not make one the blame for anything. I couldn't convince people to join a mission a year ago. You think that's going to change now with a fraction of the players?

Good on the Pigs for hosting weekly missions. I never meant to undermine the effort.
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I've got 99 problems, but a HO aint one.