JUST DO IT

[Ack-Ack]

You are joking, right? 

There is a reason why those games have high system requirements, and it is not just the eye candy.  The flight models are far more complex, and while not perfect all of them certainly reflect flight and combat conditions far, far better than Aces High. 

Games like War Thunder and World of Warplanes do not have complex flight models (compared to AH), quite the opposite really.  The only areas that those two games have over AH is the better graphics and quick action.

[BowHTR]

That isn't to say AH is not fun, but in the end it is at best gamey, maybe even more so than War Thunder.  I also think that is the crux to the question why many AH players never branch out: those other games are too complex and not gamey enough.

You are joking, right?

[The Fugitive]

You are joking, right? 

There is a reason why those games have high system requirements, and it is not just the eye candy.  The flight models are far more complex, and while not perfect all of them certainly reflect flight and combat conditions far, far better than Aces High.  One regular viewer of my stream called AH "sim light" and I tend to agree with that assessment. That isn't to say AH is not fun, but in the end it is at best gamey, maybe even more so than War Thunder.  I also think that is the crux to the question why many AH players never branch out: those other games are too complex and not gamey enough.

I dont see the fun in that game. It was boring. It looked, for most of the time like you were the only person in the arena until the fight with the spit. Then it was a few passes at which point your engine went out, and you weren't even sure if you were hit or you didn't"manage" it correctly. Again, it just didn't look like fun.

WT is a small would that had planes that flew like most of the control surfaces were all lose and flapping all over the place.

I would rather spend my time zeroing in on the bad guys and fighting it out be it in the air at or on the ground. I wouldn't last a single month flying that game. I only lasted a week in WT. I did last longer in WW on Line and even built a new computer for that one but again, lack of air fights bored me to death.

AH has so much to do. If I cant find a fight I jump in a buff, or grab a panzer and try my luck on the ground. I personally haven't flown a plane but have been in many from piper, to twin engine apachies and on up and they felt like what it seems like we have in AH. They don't flop around on any axis like I have seen in these other games.

Sim lite? I can live with that. I dont need all these extra "controls" to manage, I need substance in game play. AH provides that, these other game don't. I spent a month in FA and talked with only a handful of other players, no community at all. While here we have some poor people in our community HTC provides ways to minimize those interaction and so , more fun, less frustration. After all this IS a game.

[Shuffler]

I have already said that invictus is just here advertising another game. Some said he wasn't and even Scuzzy stepped in on his behalf.

Seems to me someone is shooting their self in the foot but it's not my company to worry about.

[Invictus84]

I have already said that invictus is just here advertising another game. Some said he wasn't and even Scuzzy stepped in on his behalf.

Seems to me someone is shooting their self in the foot but it's not my company to worry about.

And you were as incorrect then as you are now, for all the same reasons I stated before but will restate for you now:  Those communities don't need to add AH players to the ranks, quite the opposite.  The question is can AH do so. I suppose time will tell. 

Look, this is really a simple concept:  Aces High is not a simulator, or is at best a "light" simulator in the same catagory of War Thunder Sim Battles (not the Arcade or Realistic battles, and certainly not crappy World of Warplanes).  We can get into endless debates about this, but by the developers own admission AH isnt meant to be a hard core simulator.  If that insults some here I suggest you take a breath and deal with reality.  The thing that has struck me since I started streaming AH is that the majority of comments I've received so far from players of sims like BoS or Clod is that they do think AH looks like fun but in general don't see the value in subscribing.  It is almost a direct parallel to the comments from many AH players towards sims like DCS or BoS.  I suppose if you haven't played both you simply can't appreciate those differences and the attraction of both sides.

But to get back to the original point of my first post, AH may not be cutting edge but it NEEDS AH III to have any chance of getting new blood.  While I simpathize with some players not having a PC up to playing the new version I cannot understand why, after several years of development, the change over seems to be viewed with surprise.

[bustr]

So we got Invictus talking about BOS in the forum, and Krup and DAPacman talking about BOS on 200 in AHIII, and FESS talking about BOS in the forum.

Lotta BOS talking going on by people who are supposedly playing our game.

Skuzzy has said in the past talking about other games in our forums is not a problem, until it crosses some invisible line known by himself and Hitech. It is not like members of our forum have taken a blood oath and can never look at other games unless they cancel their subscription.

Below is from Hitech when he was pushed on the realism aspect of flight simms. Remember, Hitech is a pilot and owns two aircraft, one he built and a master game programmer. He has engaged in real life P51 to P51 dueling against Robert Shaw. Everything else in this game aside from the physics is setup for the convenience of getting into the fight. The physics is some of the most realistic in the industry for WW2 aircraft. Mr. Shaw gave a good opinion on Hitech's presentation of the physics after playing the game if I remember correctly.

I agree with Hitech, I doubt any of this audience every herded Holsteins with a T28 at grass top level or even bounced other aircraft in one, or rebuilt an Aeronca Champ. The argument for realism is bunk, it's an argument over how close the programmers make you feel like you are in a CGI movie. This game has never been sold as that. It's sold on the physics modeling and your ability to function with it in combat against other aircraft. It just happens to look really cool when you attack 100 B17 over the continent as they come out of the giant cloud bank in the middle of your gaggles of 262, Ta152, dora's and 109s. Or puckers your "whats it" when you are a gunner in one of those 100 B17 when that swarm suddenly cuts through your formations. Funny how none of those other games can support that many planes and players in their arenas and our game's arena is a world 512miles by 512miles.

-------------------------------------------------------
Below is Hitech on realism.....     
-------------------------------------------------------

Tac: Flip side sarcasim.

All planes should require 10 min warm up and preflight, All fields should be spaced at least 1:00 hour flying time arpart, no airfield was ever that close together, all auto pilots should be removed because most planes didn't have them, and you should have a relife tube so you can't leave your chair, oh yah need to get rid of the channel 100 because in WWII no one ever talked to the enemy, an if you die you should never be able to play the game again.

Sarcasm off:

I realy do get sick of the realism argument because people who use it only wan't there special nit pick on realism but want to protray realism as the only goal worth going after. To that I say bull pucky, Realism is a game issue just like every other topic such as, fun,socail issues, technical issues , balencing getting new players into the game vs provideing a challeng for older players,balancing the difference in all peoples equipment some people have 25" monitors running at 1600x1200 others run 17" at 800x600 now tell me no icons is even close to fair between those 2 different systems.

HiTech

[Invictus84]

So we got Invictus talking about BOS in the forum, and Krup and DAPacman talking about BOS on 200 in AHIII, and FESS talking about BOS in the forum.

Lotta BOS talking going on by people who are supposedly playing our game.

Skuzzy has said in the past talking about other games in our forums is not a problem, until it crosses some invisible line known by himself and Hitech. It is not like members of our forum have taken a blood oath and can never look at other games unless they cancel their subscription.

Below is from Hitech when he was pushed on the realism aspect of flight simms. Remember, Hitech is a pilot and owns two aircraft, one he built and a master game programmer. He has engaged in real life P51 to P51 dueling against Robert Shaw. Everything else in this game aside from the physics is setup for the convenience of getting into the fight. The physics is some of the most realistic in the industry for WW2 aircraft. Mr. Shaw gave a good opinion on Hitech's presentation of the physics after playing the game if I remember correctly.

I agree with Hitech, I doubt any of this audience every herded Holsteins with a T28 at grass top level or even bounced other aircraft in one, or rebuilt an Aeronca Champ. The argument for realism is bunk, it's an argument over how close the programmers make you feel like you are in a CGI movie. This game has never been sold as that. It's sold on the physics modeling and your ability to function with it in combat against other aircraft. It just happens to look really cool when you attack 100 B17 over the continent as they come out of the giant cloud bank in the middle of your gaggles of 262, Ta152, dora's and 109s. Or puckers your "whats it" when you are a gunner in one of those 100 B17 when that swarm suddenly cuts through your formations. Funny how none of those other games can support that many planes and players in their arenas and our game's arena is a world 512miles by 512miles.

-------------------------------------------------------
Below is Hitech on realism.....     
-------------------------------------------------------

Tac: Flip side sarcasim.

All planes should require 10 min warm up and preflight, All fields should be spaced at least 1:00 hour flying time arpart, no airfield was ever that close together, all auto pilots should be removed because most planes didn't have them, and you should have a relife tube so you can't leave your chair, oh yah need to get rid of the channel 100 because in WWII no one ever talked to the enemy, an if you die you should never be able to play the game again.

Sarcasm off:

I realy do get sick of the realism argument because people who use it only wan't there special nit pick on realism but want to protray realism as the only goal worth going after. To that I say bull pucky, Realism is a game issue just like every other topic such as, fun,socail issues, technical issues , balencing getting new players into the game vs provideing a challeng for older players,balancing the difference in all peoples equipment some people have 25" monitors running at 1600x1200 others run 17" at 800x600 now tell me no icons is even close to fair between those 2 different systems.

HiTech

Wow.  I bring up BoS and other games and I am once again a heretic.  Burn me at the stake!

We could sit here all night and argue FMs.  I'm not interested in doing so.  If you guys want to believe the AH FM blows the others out of the water more power to you. Instead, let me break down the jist of my original post so it is REALLY simple:

1.) AH needs new players.

2.) Best source of new AH players are from light sims like War Thunder and possibly more hard core sims like DCS, CLoD, BoS.

3.) AH II is so graphically dated many players from these sims cannot see past that to the fun parts of the game and it's biggest strength over the others: the potential for massive multiplayer battles of 500 or more.

4.) AH III graphics, while much improved, still are dated in comparison to these other games.  That said, the improvements are likely enough for new players to not instantly discount the game as noted in point #3.

5.) In order to sell the massive multiplay strength of this game you need a massive amount of players in the new AH III main arena.  If the player base is split in two by running AH II and III for a while then NEITHER arena will have enough players to show the MMP aspect of the game. 

6.) Before anyone posts something about the recent numbers of players in the beta arena! I'll state I am well aware those numbers have been 90-110 players during prime time.  So what? The more populated BoS and CLoD servers serve around the same numbers for FREE with better graphics AND (what those players perceive is) better flight modeling. 

So riddle me this: Why should these players come pay 15 bucks a month for a MMP game when all they will see (if AH II isnt turned off) is a game server with the same population as the servers they play on?

Does that draw a picture better for you guys ?

Maybe drop the pitchforks and torches, get your heads out of your collective arses, and stop the fifth column BS.  I am trying my best to help and doing so from a far more informed opinion than many of you who have never played anything EXCEPT AH.

Or not.  I really do not care either way at this point. 

P.S. By the way, Bustr:  I am aware what Shaw said about AH.  The key point is he said that MANY years ago.  A lot has changed since then. 

[DmonSlyr]

AH is simply the best overall Aircombat game.


Those other games flight models and games modes fly like cheese doodles compared to AH.

I stick to AH because it takes the most skill to be good at. Most people just simply cannot handle or have the patients to be good in AH. AH leaves me with a challenge every sortie.

It has better games modes like FSO and special events. That right there takes it leaps and bounds better than any other air combat game.

[Coalcat1]

The DCS flight models are about as good as you are going to get for PC. Anyone who believes AH has better flight models is lying to themselves.

Wow.  I bring up BoS and other games and I am once again a heretic.  Burn me at the stake!

We could sit here all night and argue FMs.  I'm not interested in doing so.  If you guys want to believe the AH FM blows the others out of the water more power to you.

[Vudak]

P.S. By the way, Bustr:  I am aware what Shaw said about AH.  The key point is he said that MANY years ago.  A lot has changed since then.

Sure, but have the law of physics?

I'm not part of the angry mob, btw, but I see a lot of people saying "FM, FM" without actually elaborating and so I don't know what you all mean.  I always figured since HiTech owns an RV8, flies an RV8, and has modeled an RV8, Aces High is probably pretty close to what is physically possible.  Granted, we have things like combat trim, and don't have to mix our own fuels, etc.  Is that what you mean by FM?

I kind of see Aces High as the flight sim's "MAG" - I don't know if anyone recalls that FPS that was for PS3, but it didn't have quite the eye candy of some other FPS, nor did it have the same level of realism.  What it did have was the ability to have enormous numbers of people on the same map, and a distinct need for teamwork.  It was a ton of fun for those of us who played it, but the graphics, and more basic detail did turn some people off.

[PanosGR]

Games like War Thunder and World of Warplanes do not have complex flight models (compared to AH), quite the opposite really.  The only areas that those two games have over AH is the better graphics and quick action.

But DCS has. Then again DCS is a flight sim not a game

[DmonSlyr]

I can only imagine all the vulching complaints as people in AH try to start their engines realistically, lmao.


People expect almost too much. A game can never be fully realistic. People playing games simply do not have the same training as in real life. That takes all realisticitity out of the game. AH has the best overall game play, IMO, because it takes a lot of skill and understanding to perfect. The learning curve never stops. It's just people want too much, it's a game with pretty accurate simulated effects. No other aircombat game provides as much strategy as AH. That's what makes it the best Air combat game for me.

[hitech]

Every product listed in the thread is a game just the same as AH. The only differences is what is emphasized in the simulation.

As far as making a more accurate claim. I have never seen any data posted that shows any other game is as accurate as AH in performance and handling flight modeling.

HiTech

[RagingPineapple]

As far as making a more accurate claim. I have never seen any data posted that shows any other game is as accurate as AH in performance and handling flight modeling.

HiTech

     I don't have the "data" you're looking for and I don't feel like digging it up, but in Aces High, one can slam the throttle home on a P-51D on takeoff without damaging the engine and only need a little bit of rudder correction. However, on DCS and in reality, not only would such a dramatic increase in throttle and 60 plus inches of manifold pressure from a stand still damage your engine, the torque would have you fighting a ground loop and struggling to avoid scraping the wing tips. This is just one example (of many) of how the DCS performance and flight models more accurately portray the real thing.

[lunatic1]

Thank you for your opinion, but you have absolutely no idea if it is true.  If it is true, and I trust HiTech to know this, and only him, then fine, HE will shut it down.

Shutting down AH2 will not make me upgrade sooner. I will do it when I can.  My point is, AH2 is up and running and besides the server use costs next to nothing in my opinion to keep up.

If you are worried about brand new players making the mistake of downloading the new game and being disappointed the solution would be simple, give them a message that tells them AH3 is available, and if they have a system that can handle it, they will download the new version instead.

Keeping this "old timer" happy still brings some money in and I guarantee I am not the only one.

I've always loved this game and the way HiTech runs it and his company.  I'm damn glad it isn't yours.

One last thing just to be clear.  I will absolutely not cancel my subscription even if I am not playing.  Playing or not Dale, I am still your customer.  Do what is best for the game,

Saturday sept. 10th  hitech come on 200, he was asked if it were possible to keep AH2 active  he said NO that it was time to move on. so there is no doubt AH2 will be gone   he said probably this week