JUST DO IT

[Vudak]

     I don't have the "data" you're looking for and I don't feel like digging it up, but in Aces High, one can slam the throttle home on a P-51D on takeoff without damaging the engine and only need a little bit of rudder correction. However, on DCS and in reality, not only would such a dramatic increase in throttle and 60 plus inches of manifold pressure from a stand still damage your engine, the torque would have you fighting a ground loop and struggling to avoid scraping the wing tips. This is just one example (of many) of how the DCS performance and flight models more accurately portray the real thing.

Engine damage and advanced fuel/throttle settings aren't really a flight model thing. It's a decision on if you want people to spend time with minutia or not.

[The Fugitive]

     I don't have the "data" you're looking for and I don't feel like digging it up, but in Aces High, one can slam the throttle home on a P-51D on takeoff without damaging the engine and only need a little bit of rudder correction. However, on DCS and in reality, not only would such a dramatic increase in throttle and 60 plus inches of manifold pressure from a stand still damage your engine, the torque would have you fighting a ground loop and struggling to avoid scraping the wing tips. This is just one example (of many) of how the DCS performance and flight models more accurately portray the real thing.

The difference you talking about is the same as driving cross country in a car, or running a sub 10 second run in a quarter mile on a drag strip.

What you find in DCS is a complicated TEDIOUS set of events to accomplish nothing more than going from point A to point B. AH is designed more around a balls out, hair on fire activity.

I PAY to have fun, not to bored out of my mind.

[RagingPineapple]

Engine damage and advanced fuel/throttle settings aren't really a flight model thing. It's a decision on if you want people to spend time with minutia or not.

     Hence the "performance" part of Hitech's quote and my response.

The difference you talking about is the same as driving cross country in a car, or running a sub 10 second run in a quarter mile on a drag strip.

What you find in DCS is a complicated TEDIOUS set of events to accomplish nothing more than going from point A to point B. AH is designed more around a balls out, hair on fire activity.

I PAY to have fun, not to bored out of my mind.

Than you obviously have not played in any of the combat servers.

[Coalcat1]

The difference you talking about is the same as driving cross country in a car, or running a sub 10 second run in a quarter mile on a drag strip.

What you find in DCS is a complicated TEDIOUS set of events to accomplish nothing more than going from point A to point B. AH is designed more around a balls out, hair on fire activity.

I PAY to have fun, not to bored out of my mind.

Why are you passing judgement on a game you have obviously never played before?

What you find in DCS is a complicated TEDIOUS set of events to accomplish nothing more than going from point A to point B. AH is designed more around a balls out, hair on fire activity.

You are thinking of Microsoft FSX or Prepar3d... the former of the two is rather fun, as I have not tried the later yet.

[Hajo]

All flight Sims and MMOG simulated air to air combat games have their plus and minuses.  I have DCS and have the Mustang.  bought it on disk.  It's ok.  What is missing though

is what I like about Aces High most.  Scenarios and FSO.  A lot of team building and recruiting.  The community gets involved.  LW vs. 8th etc.  Yes we don't worry about fuel mixture

or throttle position.  Why?  Because when I'm in a Scenario such as Der Grosse Schlag while escorting 8th Air Force Bomber Groups over the ETO, and an accurate map btw,  there

is a feeling of immersion when seeing that many planes in the sky.  Flying with your squadron.  Leading the 56th FG into battle.  Jugs.  61st, 62nd and 63rd squadrons  Hearing the call  "Bad Guys, 2 o'clock high!  Looks to be about 30 of

them........109s and 190s a bit lower!  Looking down on our B17s, 50 of them and hearing their chatter also is what grabs me.  Also knowing we aren't the only escorts up because we know we have 3 other BGs' up being escorted by P51s

and P38s.  We are all on different targets.  The Luftwaffe has to find us, communicate, and set up a coordinated attack.  The escorts have to hold firm.  Hopefully the escorts sweeping ahead

of our Bomb Group are hot on their six.  And then............all hell breaks loose!  Allied escorts over Germany have one chance!  Knowing full well if they lose their plane over Europe they

will never be able again to escort to target.  We get two lives only.  Losing one puts us to far away to help.  The Luftwaffe is defending over their country.  If they have damage they can

land or bail and re -up and get to the fray in short order.  A huge advantage.  Bomber pilots know that when they lose an escort or escorts through attrition their chances of making it to target lessen.

Aces High provides this.  Keep your fuel mixture and fuel tank switching, which btw we do also.  Others have limited gameplay and a limited amount of combatants.  DCS is nice, but boring.

Limited number in fights, no Scenarios or recreated air battles of WWII with the limited number of players and plane sets.  So you have the right to spout what you will.  You still don't have

the plane set and for that matter ground vehicles to simulate any large historical conflict.  Come back and visit when you do!  We'll leave the porch light on for ya.  I still have no idea why you

are posting here.  I and many here know what DCS has to offer.  That is why we are here.  Why are you?

[Invictus84]

AH is simply the best overall Aircombat game.


Those other games flight models and games modes fly like cheese doodles compared to AH.

I stick to AH because it takes the most skill to be good at. Most people just simply cannot handle or have the patients to be good in AH. AH leaves me with a challenge every sortie.

It has better games modes like FSO and special events. That right there takes it leaps and bounds better than any other air combat game.

 

Ok.  You got me. 

Good luck, guys.   

[RagingPineapple]

     Hajo, I am here (in this thread) because Hitech and others are arguing that Aces High has the best and most accurate flight and performance models, and that is not true. I gave an example to help prove my case with DCS, and you guys take a turn towards Albuquerque and start defending Aces High's game play. Don't worry, I am perfectly capable of arguing that aspect of DCS as well, but again, if you read my reply to Hitech, that is not why I am on this thread.
   
     If you want to go in that direction Hajo, I'm all for a good game play discussion. We might have to make a new thread for that though.

[Vudak]

Hajo, GREAT post.

[Vudak]

     Hence the "performance" part of Hitech's quote and my response.

I get that Aces High is kind of a "best case" scenario that removes the need to consider engine damage. I'm OK with that and it's fine if you aren't. Both sims offer different things, which is fine.

I am curious though - what about the actual flying part is off? (Aside from the fact that it is best case).

<S>

[Hajo]

     Hajo, I am here (in this thread) because Hitech and others are arguing that Aces High has the best and most accurate flight and performance models, and that is not true. I gave an example to help prove my case with DCS, and you guys take a turn towards Albuquerque and start defending Aces High's game play. Don't worry, I am perfectly capable of arguing that aspect of DCS as well, but again, if you read my reply to Hitech, that is not why I am on this thread.
   
     If you want to go in that direction Hajo, I'm all for a good game play discussion. We might have to make a new thread for that though.

Sir...........I have never flown a P47 or a P51 in real life have you?  Hitech has.  I do know however that each aircraft in the game has it's good traits and bad.  One climbs better etc.

I am not into flight modeling for the simple fact that I've never flown a Hellcat or a P38 in real life.  However there is data available to read on each planes performance in real life.

The data was compiled by those who actually flew the aircraft.  Now.......since I've never flown a real F4U1-A  I have no basis to argue anything about its' flight modeling.

So you'll please forgive me for not being able to criticize flight characteristics.  Evidently those of you foreign to our game must be experts on flight modeling and have flown all

the aircraft in your game and ours in everyday life.  If so I bow to you.  If not then I would advise you to get some real time stick time and then come back and present us with your findings.

Until then........TaTa.

[hitech]

     I don't have the "data" you're looking for and I don't feel like digging it up, but in Aces High, one can slam the throttle home on a P-51D on takeoff without damaging the engine and only need a little bit of rudder correction. However, on DCS and in reality, not only would such a dramatic increase in throttle and 60 plus inches of manifold pressure from a stand still damage your engine, the torque would have you fighting a ground loop and struggling to avoid scraping the wing tips. This is just one example (of many) of how the DCS performance and flight models more accurately portray the real thing.

1. There is no reason an engine should be damaged simply by applying full throttle.

2. You may wish to do some research on what you call torque and the tail wheel locking of a p51.

3. If you don't want to go look up performance DATA. Then your simply speaking out an orifice.

HiTech

[The Fugitive]

Why are you passing judgement on a game you have obviously never played before?
You are thinking of Microsoft FSX or Prepar3d... the former of the two is rather fun, as I have not tried the later yet.

Don't have to play them all, there are hundreds of videos posted. I've also joined a few streams and so far AH provides the best all around game/sim. As I said, I PAY for fun, not boredom.

[RagingPineapple]

I get that Aces High is kind of a "best case" scenario that removes the need to consider engine damage. I'm OK with that and it's fine if you aren't. Both sims offer different things, which is fine.

I am curious though - what about the actual flying part is off? (Aside from the fact that it is best case).

<S>

     That is exactly my point. Aces High is as you put it, the "best case" for each aircraft. I'm not saying it's a bad flight model, I'm saying it isn't the most accurate out there for that reason. Aces High is more of a "game" and DCS is more of a "simulation," and hence they are two very different games. Aces High is a "gamey" combat sim, yet the community will preach its realism over any other game out there, and when I come back with examples from a game like DCS, the community comes back and says "I don't want to mess with engine management, I just want to get into a fight!" You can't make the argument both ways. Yes, Aces High is more realistic than War Thunder, but it is also more gamey than DCS. I for one prefer the more realistic sims, but that's just me.

[Hajo]

     That is exactly my point. Aces High is as you put it, the "best case" for each aircraft. I'm not saying it's a bad flight model, I'm saying it isn't the most accurate out there for that reason. Aces High is more of a "game" and DCS is more of a "simulation," and hence they are two very different games. Aces High is a "gamey" combat sim, yet the community will preach its realism over any other game out there, and when I come back with examples from a game like DCS, the community comes back and says "I don't want to mess with engine management, I just want to get into a fight!" You can't make the argument both ways. Yes, Aces High is more realistic than War Thunder, but it is also more gamey than DCS. I for one prefer the more realistic sims, but that's just me.

I simply say "prove it"  Evidently you didn't read my post above.  Don't espouse something which you have no factual evidence.  It is after all just your opinion.

Unless you are John Landers of course.  And I doubt that is likely.

[BowHTR]

     That is exactly my point. Aces High is as you put it, the "best case" for each aircraft. I'm not saying it's a bad flight model, I'm saying it isn't the most accurate out there for that reason. Aces High is more of a "game" and DCS is more of a "simulation," and hence they are two very different games. Aces High is a "gamey" combat sim, yet the community will preach its realism over any other game out there, and when I come back with examples from a game like DCS, the community comes back and says "I don't want to mess with engine management, I just want to get into a fight!" You can't make the argument both ways. Yes, Aces High is more realistic than War Thunder, but it is also more gamey than DCS. I for one prefer the more realistic sims, but that's just me.

I dont think anyone said anything about AH being more of a sim than DCS. No one brought up DCS with the exception of you and Invictus. I think we can all agree that DCS is more of a sim when it comes to engine management and the likes.